To think that some Mumsnetters hate men?

But don't you think these responses are based in biological and / societal differences? Women only got the right to have their own bank accounts without their husband's signature in the early 70s. Because of the woeful state of parental leave/ maternity pay/ non-existent childcare situation in the UK, heterosexual women have historically (until this day) been financially dependent on their male partners, and their children too.

There's a reason microfinance loans - small loans given out in Global South countries - are given to women rather than men; because women don't tend to piss it all up the wall and create businesses that earn money, pay back debts and educate their kids.

Also, women are advised to have their own running away money as historically men hold the purse strings. Also, in many countries in the world - here in Europe, for example, contraception costs money and so does abortion (around 500 euro in most of Western Europe). So yeah, it makes sense for women to have some money to look after their own bodies.

Can you give me any examples - other than one random one - of societies/ cultures in the world where women have held more financial power than men over a long period of time? Nope, you can't.

Your other examples also don't work

Woman has male friend - acceptable - who to? Certainly not most men in a relationship with a woman. And honestly - I don't include the UK in this - but in the six other countries I've lived in the vast majority of what I thought were 'heterosexual male friends' disappeared from my life once either a) I didn't fuck them or b) they got a girlfriend

Man has female friend - He's OBVIOUSLY sleeping with her - this, you have a point. I can't believe the amount of women on these boards who won't even 'ALLOW' their partners out to dinner with a woman. It's super gross and really controlling. But also why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who you couldn't trust to go out for dinner with a female friend?

The whole dynamic is toxic af.

Check out punternet. Actually don't. It's the most depressing thing in the universe ...

I like the idea that they "virtually never complain" 🤣

anyway, this is a zombie thread from 2020

Found the man.

Women generally can't see their own Misandry. Many times it takes men to point it out. Men suffer at the hands of arsehole women but virtually never complain

I'm sorry if people don't like having it pointed out that sexism is just as stupid as racism

Always you compared racism with sexism. The experiences of an oppressed minority against those of a privileged group who perpetuate sexism.

& you're also speaking with people who've experienced sexism, some of which has made them feel endangered.

Also black women who experience both racism and sexism, which you seem to have forgotten with your trite comparisons.

The usual blatant racist and sexist who will do anything to drive home the point that white men 'rule', nothing and nobody else matters.

It's been truly depressing, on the weekend that IWD falls, to read so many posters demonstrate just how little of a shit they give about the dignity, safety and boundaries of women and girls.

I'm sorry if people don't like having it pointed out that sexism is just as stupid as racism.

Does this level of pointless bullshittery come with a badge or something?

Always women having experience based fear of men and their behaviour IS NOT SEXISM. Therefore can't be compared to racism AT ALL.

You do realise there will be some survivors of abuse reading your comments, don't you? Would you really tell them they were being brain dead, discriminatory and prejudiced? In reality there are very, very few women, even amongst this group who hate men as a class however even those that do will display this behaviour in a very different way than a man who hates women would. There's a high chance he will kill a woman or seriously harm one, at some point, just to show how much he hates us.

I'm going to disagree. SOME men think they are better than woman and see us as second class citizens.
I look down on those "men" and all other males who agree with them.
I often think too many women are scared to be on their own so put up with alot from their partners, they get so used to coming second in life its what the expect, it's what their dc see is normal and the cycle continues.

I'm sorry if people don't like having it pointed out that sexism is just as stupid as racism. Deciding you hate "men" is as brain dead as deciding you hate "black people" or "gays" or whatever arbitrary group you've decided to focus on. Reactionary politics, that you see espoused here on MN, do more damage to the ideal of equality between all peoples than help it.

Back to Debating 101 for you, I’m afraid

Oh I see you've compared men in terms of oppression to black people and 'gays' (!!!).

Lol and more lol

There isn't a country in the world where men experience oppression at the hands of women.

To paint men as an oppressed class is in itself a statement of rank misogyny.

"
The 40% pay gap is outrageous. I hope you went to a tribunal @FrogsFrogs"

It was the gender pay gap thing, public data. The 40% is not bad for my industry.

I was paid less than the men actually that I worked with directly as well so I left.

Remember when the govt decided you had to pay to take it to tribunal and claims for sex discrimination went through the floor, and the fee was found illegal by the courts? That sort of thing is how structural discrimination is perpetrated. The glib oh individual women can go to tribunal is the response of someone who isn't actually interested in combating structural issues.

Here's a link that I doubt you'll read www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2017/jul/26/union-supreme-court-fees-unfair-dismissal-claims

@skybluee good post. There is constant vigilance. And then the knowledge that if something happens, some people will say it was my own fault.

It's not a case of "poor me(n)". I'm believe that gender equality remains depressingly out of reach when people, of either gender, continue to promote sexism.

The 40% pay gap is outrageous. I hope you went to a tribunal @FrogsFrogs

I'm sorry if people don't like having it pointed out that sexism is just as stupid as racism. Deciding you hate "men" is as brain dead as deciding you hate "black people" or "gays" or whatever arbitrary group you've decided to focus on. Reactionary politics, that you see espoused here on MN, do more damage to the ideal of equality between all peoples than help it.

But of course they've been nabbed and turned around by the class who weren't happy at being left out

Wah wah poor me(n)!

The thing is that the ideas around talking about , combating discrimination, intersectionality were v useful.

But of course they've been nabbed and turned around by the class who weren't happy at being left out

Yes and unless you make A Very Deliberate Point of saying how you are anti "isms" you must be an awful pro-ism, "aha, gotcha!" type person.

Bonus points for a wide-eyed, "who, little old me?!" tone to such comments.

It's not even amusingly transparent anymore, just tediously so.

Yes. Of course.

Also women in general are being like white supremacists when they talk about statistical risk of men v women

And basically anything else that paints men as a class as anything less than 100% awesome.

Are we really back to that ridiculous argument that says a woman who has had a bad experience with a man and is now wary and distrustful of men, is prejudiced in the same way a White supremacist is towards black people?

Jesus Christ. And look up what oppression actually is, people

We're never going to get anywhere with 'gender equality' if women are framed as the oppressors of men !

Gender equality = sort out men's problems for them before we are allowed to work to help women

Gender equality = my old work, 40% + pay gap, majority white non disabled male, new gender network inaugural talk, question #1, hasn't this all gone too far prioritising certain groups and white men are now discriminated against.

From a woman.

I'm not joking, I wish I was..

@skybluee

And let's face. That's just not right and shouldn't be the case. It has to change.

@BuzzShitbagBobbly

I think it's depressing that promoting gender equality is seen as "Virtual Signalling". Perhaps it's a sign of the world we're in and why things are the way they are?

Always no I don't think any of those things are acceptable. Then again I'm not sexist. If you want to address real sexism, then why not quote actual instances of sexism you've seen and then challenge it?