Mmr and links to austim

Wakefield's paper proposed a link between Autism and the MMR vaccine.
12 other people were involved, some of whom were also found guilty. We don't hear about them because they have not gone on to live the high profile lifestyle that Wakefield has chosen.

It's a good project, sorry

It's a god project, independent and focussed on responding to the fears of parents.

Wish I'd remembered it sooner, maybe back on page 1

Excellent link @CuriousaboutSamphire

There is no link. In your case OP I would suspect that it's genetic. In my case DS2 has a diagnosis, so does my dad. The likelihood is that I'm undiagnosed and it's genetic in my family too.

We have friends who have autistic children. One of them gets very upset because her mother is convinced that her son "caught" his autism from the MMR vaccination. She beats herself up about it, wondering whether his autism is her fault. That's both very wrong and very sad.

Oh! I had that 'overload' in the Myth Folder, Sparking Based on the obvious fact that babies immune systems are perfectly capable of coping with all the antigens, fungi, parasites, bacteria, and viruses they are exposed to every day, they are far stronger than many think.

There's been a lot of research on it, hold on... Oxford, VKP

vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/combination-vaccines-and-multiple-vaccinations

Erm no but I think it can exacerbate the associated bowel condition in children with ASD and like all vaccines comes with various other risks.
Not having mmr obviously means you risk the viruses (though having mmr isn’t a guarantee you wont). There’s a real risk of getting measles as it hasn’t been eradicated. My non mmr vaccinated DC got measles.
You have to work out whether you feel the vaccine or virus is a bigger risk to your baby

Strangely enough CMV causes more disability than rubella in exposed pregnancies. CMV is far more likely to be implicated in autism than the MMR (which we KNOW isn't)

Yet nobody ever talks or knows about it. We don't yet have a vaccine...

It is unambiguous!!! There is no link between MMR and autism.

It makes no sense to say "we don't know what does cause autism so there is still a chance that the MMR is linked"

You might as well say that eating bananas during pregnancy could be linked because no one has proved it isn't.

Sorry. I should RTFT.

I agree, the original "research" was debunked.

I did find evidence that suggested there was a concern aboit overloading an immune system with 3 vaccines at once and that they would be better spaced out. I can't be bothered to find it now.

We tried to have a proper chat with the HV about overloading but she wouldn't and just kept talking about autism even after we'd made it perfectly clear we knew that wasn't a risk and weren't concerned about that.

The message can't be clear and unambiguous until you can demonstrate what does cause autism. What, like Rubella, the R in MMR?

It's a multi cause condition with environmental, biologic, and genetic factors. Will you wait until every single combination of otherwise harmless conditions and occurrences has been ruled out?

Gah I can't tear myself away enough from mumsnet but I will to get on...

I don't think now the NHS should offer single vaccines. In 2018

I do think they should have during the height of the scare and made it clear that the changeover to MMR was a cost thing. Single vaccines weren't withdrawn because they had any safety issues - just we had already bought the MMR which was cheaper

I do think that anyone who still has worries (even unfounded ones) has a responsibility to vaccinate privately if they want them and it's a good idea to keep offering them privately for that reason.

I don't think saying you would if they were on the NHS is very valid- they aren't because of cost. If it worries you enough to refuse the MMR, surely you are worried enough to pay even if it means it takes you some saving.

All these people who can't afford vaccines for their kids yet can afford to go on a holiday or wear new clothes etc... I think it just shows priorities

I've gone from being able to afford private healthcare to being a single disabled mum... I know what being on the breadline is. I still know where my priorities are with my child's health although I was once a loon, I have been educated

I just don't agree with it. I think it's incredibly arrogant and shows a dangerous disregard for the thoughts and feelings of the people your trying vaccinate. What does? Multi cohort, longitudinal research that shows that complete uptake of individual medicines, including vaccines, is far less than that of single dosage medicines?

You mean "It doesn't pander to people who prefer to believe an out and out charlatan who designed their fears to line his own pockets"?

The message can't be clear and unambiguous until you can demonstrate what does cause autism.

Ah thanks @PurpleDaisies was thinking it was being banned for health reasons from that post. That extra info makes a lot more sense!

If the NHS offered single vaccines in anything other than exceptional circumstances, I believe wholeheartedly that this would be taken by the general public as an admission that mmr was risky. People would think why would the NHS offer a more time consuming, more expensive,less effective method of vaccination? And the conclusion would be that the triple vaccine itself was in some way 'dangerous'.

The NHS does not think the MMR is dangerous and so would not and should not offer an alternative. The message has to be clear and unambiguous.

Wakefield is no hero, he took money to deliberately produce flawed research. He's still taking money off idiots to continue spouting crap that he knows is lies

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/science-environment-46046064

@Basecamp65 not heard of places banning sunscreen? Link please

@MrBirlingsAwfulWife

I hope you are right. Otherwise we have been failing to vaccinate children who would otherwise have been vaccinated for the last 20 years...

Your thought process is flawed though @GreenEggsHamandChips.
Offering what you describe as a second best option would have a catastrophic impact on the uptake of the mmr and the net result would be devastating.

I read it. I just don't agree with it. I think it's incredibly arrogant and shows a dangerous disregard for the thoughts and feelings of the people your trying vaccinate.

I'd rather vaccinate by any way even if it is the second best way than no way

Green Try reading the whole post, it contains an explanation that doesn't include a conspiracy theory, ffs!