Should Paternity testing be mandatory?

Cheese it’s basically a bean counting excercise. If it costs more to enforce payment or to lock up non-paying fathers then it’s bad policy. The cost of locking up a man isn’t cheap AND the govt still has to pay out benefits as well.

Like I said upthread the data itself is sketchy. Different studies report as low as 2% and as high as 10%. It would be disingenuous to split that as that isn’t how statistics work. You can safely say it’s at least 2%. The 30% is most definitely weaponised bullshit. Women do generally name the correct father, and given the levels of male violence I can understand why the costs of engaging in such a deception would be too high for many women.

I would support more study into the rates of this before any rush to legislation, although I stand by the belief it should be counted as a criminal fraud.

Mandatory Parental Community Payback would be the less sexist version of course, but the OP was specifically about fathers/fathers day.

What about a Mandatory Paternal Community Payback Order (it's not a thing, I've just invented it). If you're an absent parent, not paying maintenence and dodging paying by not securing a job/getting paid under the table/fixing your tax return so you look like you earn nothing, then get sentenced to a kind of Community Payback. A set number of hours that must be completed weekly, enforceable by law, that releases money to the resident parent in the form of maintenance upon completion. Exempt only if found unfit to work. Could that work? 🤔

There have been hospital mix ups. They have not resulted in full public inquiries and compensation is pretty minimal.

Do we know how many men have been deceived into thinking they are the father of a child whose wife has been unfaithful , it happens as I know from my family's history .

The 30% figure is totally wrong that is ONLY for men who have sought out DNA testing as they have low confidence in paternity. Even in those cases 70% of women have done no such thing as lie. In general this supports the view that most women are perfectly trustworthy on this issue.

However I still stand by the view that merry hell would be raised if 2% of mother’s were handed the wrong baby at the hospital. We’re talking national scandal, reams of compensation claims and the whole nine yards.

Basically we’re saying motherhood is an automatic get out of jail free card?

If you are going to take a DNA sample from 1/2 the population then you might as well take it from everyone, man and woman and let the police have it as a crime database. That were certainly help with the crime resolution rate.

You can be 100% that if the DNA is taken from everyman in the country then the politicians will give the police access to it at some point so it might as well be everyone.

Any man who is named as a father when a claim is made via CMS and who denies paternity is offered a DNA test. They must pay up front if they deny paternity but if it is found that they are not the father the cost is refunded.

CMS doesn't pay out much in refund fees funnliy enough. And when the blokes learn that they have to turn up to a doctor's surgery with photo ID/a passport a lot of them suddenly refuse the test and just pay up. Funny that.

My friends ex thought he could get his mate to turn up and pretend to be him. Only CMS had asked her for a photo of him so the surgery could check it was him who turned up for the DNA test. He sent his idiot mate who looked nothing like him. They refused to carry out the test and he ended up admitting paternity and paying maintenance. A pittance but better than nothing.

This was some years back. These days both would be prosecuted for fraud. And plenty of blokes have been sent to prison for trying to fake DNA tests to try and show they are not the father.

Maybe we should turn the OP's question on it's head? Yes, lets test paternity in every case so the feckless fathers can't get out of paying maintenance!

Well, they're required to pay as they fathered a child and can't be bothered to do any more.

The vast majority of single parents are women (90% I believe), the minority of single fathers are often widowers so your facts aren't really representative of most mothers.

This whole proposal is ludicrous, it's not just a debate what should happen to women that trick men into paying for a child that's not theirs.

If pp is right and 30% if children are being brought up by someone who isn't their father because of fraud by the mother, and those mothers go to prison, that's an awful lot of children being taken into care. Obviously the man bringing them up has no responsibility for them, and the mother can't look after them because of being in prison, so care?

That really isn't the best option for a child.

Again, as has been mentioned several times, if a couple split up and a man has doubts, he can request a test. If he's not the father he doesn't pay anything.

If a man fundamentally doesn't trust his partner to the extent of believing the children aren't his, they should split up anyway as he clearly doesn't trust her so doesn't have a relationship worth the name.

This is an utter derail either it is an ethical violation to name the wrong father or it isn’t. You do know that NRP’s who are women are MORE likely to dodge paying any maintenance at all, so stop making this about all the evil men who fuck off.

In fact this entire discussion is a slander to men for as much as you guys harp on about the gender pay gap nearly nothing is mentioned of the gender tax gap. Men pay more in taxes and tend to take less out in benefits. Thusly men are overwhelmingly actually providing for the nations impoverished children. Men who have no children of their own are picking up the tab, and by and large this carries on without complaint. Yet STILL you want to make out men as a class are evil and vile.

I’ll give you male violence particularly sexual violence. That is clearly a problem we have yet to successfully fix, and for my part I’m sorry we haven’t done so, but ffs men are not just walking cash machines that exist for your benefit. You rightly talk of the objectification of women, but objectification isn’t a one way problem. A lot of you objectify us as simple resource dispensing machines.

*without

upsideup how long do you want them to got to prison for?

@FASH84 I haven't watched csi in my life. Your previous parageaph would have sufficed or are you not able to answer a legitimate question with a snide remark?

I have to agree with

The majority of the time they KNOW they're the father.

It insinuates women are all liars and fecklessly having unprotected sex and getting pregnant with no consideration of the consequences.

They're not paying because they KNOW they can get away with it! Because the cms (as the csa before them) DON'T do their job, require constant chasing and threats to do the minimum. They have a few sanctions available to them for non-payers - which they very rarely employ.

I agree with the oft suggested idea that all NRP's should have their income garnished at source, if it can't be garnished, state pays child support and NRP has to repay it (bloody bet govt WILL pursue them then!!)

No legit reason why this can't be done. All working people's income is known to HMRC employees and self employed. Those in receipt of benefits - tax credits administered by hmrc also, other govt depts administer the rest. Much as I hate UC, one plus would be it's possible to garnish child support at source here too.

Make it a CRIME not a civil offence not to pay.

There's already a process in place to enforce testing if they try to avoid paying by claiming the child isn't theirs anyway.

"What provision are you making for donor sperm and IVF procedures?" Excellent point! And adopted children? Surrogacy?

I'm far more in favour of closing the loopholes deadbeats use to reduce/avoid payment, like refusing to work, being 'self employed' and only 'paying' themselves nmw while lifting massive dividends they live on (living in huge houses, with flash cars etc yet pleading poverty when it comes to paying child support 😡).

"Why would your dna being stored in a way bother anyone" seriously? Because it could be used to frame people (go against the govt - find yourself framed for murder or a terrorist plot! Or even just to discredit you by 'placing' you within an organisation or place contrary to your ethics), used to develop weaponry, used in fertility treatments or medically against your wishes, used to deny you health insurance or life assurance, used to deny you treatment (REALLY wouldn't put it past this lot to do this!) they can learn your genetic weaknesses and exploit this, sheer incompetence leading to the info falling into the wrong hands! Hell they can't even keep our medical records safe now!! Go watch Gattaca, read 1984 and animal farm.

We're already living in an Orwellian nightmare in several ways!

My dd is clearly my ex's, he has never denied this and even before we split his mum joked he couldn't deny it as she is absolute spit of him! Not only in looks but mannerisms too. He NEVER paid regularly or in full. Quick off top of my head calculation he's about £25-20k short in what he paid! Dna test would have made NO difference as he never even questioned paternity. He's just a selfish shit!

TransExclusionaryMRA And when it's proven the man is the father, then what measures should be taken to ensure he actually pays maintenance?

Also, generally a relationship implies trust so I implicitly trust DP and expect the same courtesy back.

Don't really see how DNA testing will cut social welfare? Especially given that any maintenance a single parent recieves is disregarded in benefit calculations.

Most fathers not paying/seeing the children are doing that because they are crap fathers not generally because they really think they aren't the bio dad.

And in the case of a one night stand or fling as such CMS currently works that the mother will name the father, then that man has to prove he isn't the father via a DNA, if he is then he pays the costs of the test, I had a friend in that situation.

Yes, also to call out dead beat mothers.

Wow some classic DARVO going on here! No wonder you guys find it so annoying, but it’s quite eye opening how many of you are willing to reinforce a woman’s right to defraud men! As that is what is being demonstrated here. I also note your complete lack of awareness of an individual child’s right to know their biological parent. I get you don’t like men very much the misandry is practically dripping from this thread, so I’ll take it as a given you don’t care for men, so at least think of the children...

YANBU
It should an offence to trick somone into thinking a childs theirs and making them pay. One of my close friends has recently found out the child hes rasing isnt his, he loves them but is absolutely heartbroken, what their mother did was such a cruel and twisted thing but of course the poor child is probably never going to find this out.
I know the children of my father is who I say he is so would have no problem with a mandatory DNA test

Are there any tests that women can have done on men to check if they are arseholes before settling down / having children with them?

This!

Possible things - he has a crazy crazy ex, he left his ex while she was pregnant/a few weeks post partum, he lives with his parents post aprx 25 - I’m sure others will think of more!!

No fucking way. I wouldn’t have my kids tested like this. Very unfair. If he has strong grounds to suspect not his then perhaps he could go through courts but I would be very unhappy at giving kids dna to some national database. Total invasion of privacy.

Are there any tests that women can have done on men to check if they are arseholes before settling down / having children with them?

That would be much more useful

What about tests on men to see if they are off shagging or not? Which is effectively what this test bein asked for is about.

My friend works at a blood bank and says its shocking how many children are not fathers child. They dont say anything. Can of worms not to open i think so yabu op