Should Paternity testing be mandatory?

Or is the idea here that not only do women lie lie lie about the paternity of their babies, they also lie lie lie about rape...

So in MRA world

A small number of women lying about paternity is a far worse issue than a very large number of men failing to provide for their children (and leaving large numbers in poverty)
A small number of women and girls lying about rape is a far worse issue than a very large number of rapes and other sex crimes going unpunished

Answer:
Force all families to have testing when the man demands it but not when he doesn't
Definitely don't use the DNA for anything related to sex crimes as probably it won't make any difference and women lie yada yada

In Italy your children from a first marriage (or relationship, I suppose) trump subsequently-sired children in terms of support and inheritance.

I think this should be the case here, along with DNA proof if required. It seems unreasonable and immoral that a man can father 100 children without a backward glance and no financial penalty.

Huh?

Obviously not all sex is rape

I think there is a misunderstanding here.

Certainly in the case of women and girls who report rape, underage girls who are pregnant, and incest, a crime has been committed....

My wording "whenever a sex crime with DNA evidence is reported" is fairly clear?

I wasn't suggesting that the police should prosecute all men who have had sex, that seems a bit of an odd leap!

And a criminal offence to neglect your children by not paying CS? Because that's much more common and hurts far more children

I’ve been saying this for years. All very well an NRP pleading poverty or dodging paying, but it’s not like the RP can just tell the bairns “oh you’ll get your tea a week on Tuesday, I’m skint.”

SardineReturns Whilst it would definitely be invaluable in some cases, otherwise it will just prove they had sex, not rape unfortunately and we'd be in the same situation.

Actually that is a good point.

A database containing the DNA of most of the men in the UK would be great for prosecuting rape cases & also in cases of getting underage girls pregnant, incest etc.

It would make things a bit "nowhere to hide".

So maybe if we can combine the compulsory DNA stuff around children, with compulsory DNA for all men and boys in the UK and a commitment that it be used whenever a sex crime with DNA evidence is reported, and prosections to the max of the law, I might be able to get on board.

Indeed! Some interesting points though.

But I always wonder why people who think of themselves as pro men's rights often like this, because it has the potential to coerce a lot of men into handing over DNA to government databases. After all, it would have to be mandatory and probably comprehensive if you wanted it to work, and I dont think anyone seriously believes there's no possibility it could be kept and misused.

If I know a bloke has privacy concerns about DNA samples but I just don't like him much, I can say he's one of the potential candidates for father of my child, and oblige him to hand it over. I could have loads of fun with that, if I were a complete dick.

I think the OP has got enough info for her essay now.....

I can climb down from the mandatory testing position if we were to make it a crime of criminal fraud.

And a criminal offence to neglect your children by not paying CS? Because that's much more common and hurts far more children.

@tillytrotter1 there already is a system in
Place if dad’s doubt parentage . It does not them pay any more

Forgive me if this is any way putting words in anyone’s mouth or if
this turns out to be a straw man, but a child’s right to know their true parentage, and with it potentially crucial information that concerns their own health is trumped by women’s rights to not be offended?

I can climb down from the mandatory testing position if we were to make it a crime of criminal fraud. That way no woman need be offended by intrusive testing yet there is a deterant in place. Isn’t that a fair compromise?

My husband doesn't want to give DNA samples. We agree on the paternity of our children, so there is no need. That a few other women might lie is nothing to do with me, and my family aren't going to be drawn into other people's problems. I'm also not up for either cutting spending elsewhere or paying more tax to fund this idea.

A DNA test won't make parents pay and sex of the parent doesn't come into it, plenty of both sex that don't financial support their children themselves.

What would work better would be harsh penalties for failing to financially provide by either parent. Make it shameful to not do so rather than the current system where people are actively encouraged to have children they can't afford. Remove the benefits and invests in decent childcare.instead. DNA tests solve nothing other than in disputes.

DNA screening will not solve the current crisis in the no payment of child maintenance. K owing who the father is is it the issue.

tillytrotter1 But now the claim simply assumes that the correct father is named, he can challenge this if he thinks this isn't true. At which point, he gets a DNA test which shows the truth one way or the other.

Why the hell should the starting point be disbelieving women?!

It’s frankly insulting to the majority of women to suggest this.
It's not all about women though is it? It would solve a lot of problems, non-paying fathers wouldn't be able to escape their responsibilities and nor would they be forced to support another man's child. Believe it or not there are some vicious women out there as well as men.

My ex denied paternity when I went to the CSA. He didn’t go through with testing, presumably because he didn’t want to pay what he already knew.

We are many years down the line now. Still no maintenance. He has called into question his paternity with our eldest child - presumably to get him on board with his ‘your mother is a slag’ narrative. Said child told me, quite matter of fact, that he no longer had any respect for his father.

Be careful what you wish for.

The child not looking like him means NOTHING! I noted my dd is the spit of her dad. She looks NOTHING like me but I'm certain she's mine. One of my dn's though looks more like me than EITHER parent - genetics can throw curve balls. The child could look like mum or grandad or whoever

This too. DS1 and DD look very like me (but oddly not like each other) and DS2 is his Dad all over, not a trace of me.

Notsureaboutit -

A - there's ALREADY as has been pointed out SEVERAL times the process for a man who doubts paternity to get a dna test to challenge paternity wrt child maintenance payments. As your husband was able to do.

B - I'm ANOTHER honest woman who DOES have a problem with this because of

i The misogyny, the implication that women are LESS trustworthy than men, men who are trying (and mostly succeeding) in avoiding paying child maintenance

ii like hell do I trust ANY govt with mine or my child's dna without a damn good reason - reasons for which I listed in a previous post

C your second example - hasn't seen the child since a baby - hardly presents him in the best light considering he COULD be the father, given the prevalence of DV one has to wonder why this woman has seemingly gone to fair lengths so that he can't find her! If he's paying through cms or similar then THEY have her details so no reason why (and I believe this is possible) the child's dna and his dna can't be obtained separately for the test to be done. How well do you know this man? Cos frankly sounds like a load of bullshit excuses for his being a deadbeat dad (or possibly worse!)

The child not looking like him means NOTHING! I noted my dd is the spit of her dad. She looks NOTHING like me but I'm certain she's mine. One of my dn's though looks more like me than EITHER parent - genetics can throw curve balls. The child could look like mum or grandad or whoever.

"The biggest issue with child maintenance in the UK is that vast numbers of men dont' pay anything and we have stacks of children living in poverty as a result." Exactly and as I and others posted early on in MOST cases they KNOW they ARE the father - they just don't want to take responsibility!

My husband was conned by his ex-wife until a dna revealed the truth

So by that reckoning every woman should have her morals and honesty called into question? Bullshit.

I don’t know what impact it will have on paying child support but I do believe dna testing should be made manatory. My husband was conned by his ex-wife until a dna revealed the truth. As soon as a woman signs up for child support, a dna test should be automatically carried out. If the guy refuses because he is blindsighted by love, he should be given the option further down the road , should he become suspicious.

Well rejoice because this is the situation. Apart from your weird understanding of what mandatory means (if you really meant mandatory then the man couldn’t refuse). You seem to be saying that if men asked to pay child support wants a DNA test they should be able to - that is what happens now.

If 2% of children are unknowingly not biologically their fathers this would create more problems then it would solve surely as it would lead to a greater proportion of marriage breakdowns and therefore more single parents who may be reliant in state benefits.

I agree absolutely that that’s the not so deeply hidden undertone. Ditto half the repeal the 8th opposition who were blathering on about morality and women sleeping around

I’m sorry I misunderstood and jumped on you though.

no worries soddingunicorns

it's always interesting to expose what lies underneath this sort of thing -

in this case an attitude to women and girls that doesn't seem to have moved on since biblical times

No to cut stress on welfare feckless need to pay for their bloody kids

To often I hear about men let’s face it it’s mainly men fucking off their kids and pleading poverty

If your not living with your kids you are simply paying less for their up keep than if you were living with them