Completely insanse waste - Fish Fight

Just did the test on the site and came out a Dab hand - so it must be right then.

It's hit 300 000!

Go sign the HFW - link at start of thread.

Another ludicrous EU agricultural rule (like the one about throwing away carrots that are not shaped uniformly!!!) which is immoral, wasteful and drives up the price of the food item. The reason why it is immoral is that they are driving fisherman to lie about what they have caught - a dead fish back in the sea is still a caught fish. They should have a system whereby the excess fish is not thrown back but documented as "collateral damage" - the fish can then be sold but the amounts documented so that it can be used to calculate the quota accurately for the next year. If quotas are for ecological reasons, throwing back dead fish only gives you a falsified record as to how much is being caught. If a large amount of cod, for example, is being caught as collateral damage, they can just say no more cod next year (or very little).

You'd think some of these rules were made by drunk 18 year olds in the pub rather than sober responsible adults....maybe they are.

We should start another Mumsnet campaign about this too - I'd be happy to sign up.

I've had both pollock and coley from the Morrison's fish counter. You can spot coley a mile away because it's slightly pink and thr fillets are huge and very cheap.

I vote for SexyDomesticatedDab

I like NigellaPleasePollockWithMe but I also like SexyDomesticatedDab.......

Only one way to find out - FIGHT!!!

LOL!

Ooh - that's a good 'catch'

Mackerel goes quite fishy very quickly - very fresh it's great but like most oily fishes not so good being kept hanging around too long.

oh wow, so glad this thread has been going well.

@Tempertrapped - I have got H F-W's 'River Cottage Fish Book' here which is good on techniques, shopping and ethics. Cooking fish is amazingly easy and quick once you are confident about it - agree with Nigella that supermarket labels tend to tell you to overcook it.
IMO the most important thing in terms of eating quality is getting it as fresh as poss - eat it the day you go shopping.

@Slubber - Morrisons has proper fishmongers.

agree with Nigella re basics pollock. Often the coley and pollock is marketed as basic white fish and you just have to look at the small print to find out what it is. Non-cod fish fingers are cheaper than cod ones too.
All of which makes a nice change from most ethical shopping where the more ethical stuff is more expensive....

Hugh's petition is going great guns - not far from 300 000. However I can't believe his mackerel baps are going to catch on - you have to be in the mood for mackerel and it is only nice if super-fresh IMO....

Could you imagine - I'll have a couple thick fillets of Brian please!! Also when did Blood Oranges become Ruby ones?

@ Brian

Think I read somewhere they are going to rename Pollock Brian as people didn't like to ask for Pollock!!!

mmh midsummer, an interesting debate, but possibly not one relevant to this thread, although I can understand the logical argument for giving up eating meat and fish altogether. I'm never going to be a vegetarian so it's a moot point really.

thanks AriesGirl I will have a look at the MCSs good fish guide.

Nigella I didn't know that, I'll check out the frozen fish aisle next time I'm in.

Slubber the basic fish at Sainsbo' is Pollock - frozen pack - you can easily cook direct from frozen - our DS' have it most Fridays - with chip shop bought chips.

I can't say 100% that we should not be eating cod / haddock as we don't really know what the total catch is and what stocks are left. Think some will always be caught - since if you are going to trawl you'll find different varities. We should use all the fish caught - saw the Jamie Fish supper where Dabs are thrown back because no demand - if you sold them at store of £1ea I'd buy them up!

Sorry misspelled your name SlubberdeGurnard

@slubbarde
What's an ethical fish? One who reads Kant and J S Mill and Jeremy Bentham? Isn't the concept meaningless if the fish still suffer and die for no essential purpose? If drowning puppies is wrong, why is ripping fish out of the ocean any different?

The only reason why it could be is that puppies are cuter and we are more emotionally attached to them. As I demonstrated above, cuteness is not a relevant moral criteria in deciding the moral rightness or otherwise of killing. Likewise, it is just as wrong to kill a stranger as someone you are emotionally close to.

This is one thing guaranteed to have me frothing at the mouth with frustration. The whole thing is just so unintelligent , not to mention profoundly immoral. The world's fish stocks stand on the brink of collapse and we have this insane European policy which no one seems to have the will to do anything about.

I also agree with Callisto in that I really don't think there's any excuse for eating cod or haddock any more. They are endangered species ffs!

Pretty much every policy towards the sea in Europe and in the UK is wrong headed, in terms of over-fishing, the quota system, the lack of protection of nursery grounds, and destructive fishing methods which results in the mass deaths of dolphins and porpoises (off our own coasts as well as further afield). I am in no way a Europhobe, but the idiocy of the CFP on its own is enough to make me think we should leave the EU

There is stuff that you can do about it, by the way. Don't buy trawled fish. Download the Marine Conservation Society's Good Fish Guide and it will help you decide which are the responsible ones to eat. If something isn't done now, it will result in the mass collapse of the world's fisheries, an enormous loss of biodiversity, and suffering and starvation for many species, including humans.

@mackerel
In antebellum America it was socially acceptable to own and exploit slaves. Due to great efforts by abolitionists and social reformers this gradually changed, to the point today where the thought of owning or trading another human being is completely unacceptable to all decent thinking people.

However, despite it being against international law it still goes on, especially human trafficking for prostitution and domestic staff. The fact that a few people choose to perpetuate this, doesn't invalidate the fact that human trafficking is wrong.

I'd like to see a similar shift in attitudes towards the farming and fishing of sentient non human animals.

Does that mean I.d like to see consumption of meat banned? No I wouldn't, as I think prohibition has opposite and unintended effects to those desired, for example the prohibition of alcohol was a disaster. However I hope people become more aware of the issues, the paradigm shifts towards extending the golden rule to the rest of the animal kingdom.

Signed up.

I find buying fish a bit of a giant ethical headache tbh and have almost got to the stage of not buying it at all as I stand there in the fish aisle dithering about picking things up and putting them back down again.

I stopped buying farmed salmon after sophable's dh's thread last year ( was starting to go off the flavour anyway). Now all I get is pole & line tuna, mackerel and the odd packet of prawns (not sure if these are good or bad)....oh and fish fingers, which are probably cod. The dog gets pilchards.

WIll asking at the fish counter in sainsbury's for pollock or coley really help? The people behind the counters aren't proper fishmongers or butchers, will they feed back customer requests. they always seem half asleep.

Can I buy ethical fish on line somewhere?

I agree with mackerel I have just signed the petition.

midsummer, what if TV is covered with programmes on moral philosophy and people still choose to eat meat and fish?

I would agree with you though that it is a crying shame there hasn't been a proper vegetarian cuisine series on TV for a very long time, if ever. Did Rose Elliott ever get a series, 20 years or so ago?

@kepler
I don't eat eggs at all either. I meet all my protein needs from beans, pulses, tofu, soya milk, soya mince, quinoa, rice, bread and many other vegetables and grains. You're so right about the fishing industry decimating the marine eco-systems and there being no sustainable way to eat fish at all; however, may I respectfully contend that you are a flexitarian rather than a vegetarian. It's slight ambiguities like these that cause confusion in the wider population that vegetarians can eat fish, and can lead to embarrassment when hosts and restauranteurs put fish on the menu as the 'veggie' option.

@mackerel
I would contend that instead of educating people to eat 'a different kettle of fish' as it were, or lobbying the fisheries ministers & policy makers for slight tweeks to the regulations and quotas, we give more prominence and promotion to veggie cuisine and moral philosophy on TV & the mainstream media. Industry is always going to find loopholes and ways round legislation when there is a resource like the oceans to be exploited. IMHO the best way to tackle this is supply & demand economics, ie decreasing the numbers of fish/flesh eating consumers so that the industry gradually atrophies and the economic activity & employment shifts towards more horticultural based patterns.