Lisa Nandy says child rapists should be in women’s prisons if they identify as female

[RoyalCorgi]

Extraordinary.

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=oUon9j1zJ_E&

Fucking hell!

Also - the whole room seems to be white men (naturally they all clapped when she said child rapists should be in women’s prison).

Rhona Hodgekiss former governor of Cornton Vale, Rhona Hotchkiss, says that in her experience it is "always an issue to have trans women in with female prisoners”.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-51452489/ex-prison-chief-expresses-concern-about-trans-women-in-female-jails

"My experience is, that it is always an issue to have trans women in with female prisoners, I think you have to think beyond the obvious things like physical or sexual threat, which are sometimes an issue, to the very fact of the presence of a male bodied person in amongst vulnerable women causes them distress and consternation."

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3823351-Ex-prison-chief-expresses-concern-about-trans-women-in-female-jails

She also says that if the male rapist IDs as female, that is how the crime should be recorded.

Women..know your place. Even the most disgusting crimes are less disgusting that being denied access to vulnerable women .

Go team penis...

Wow, this is just unbelievable, she’s so far beyond the looking glass at this point

If nothing else, the Labour leadership contest is bringing sunlight, lots of sunlight.

I am not overly familiar with women's place uk. But I would put a lot of money on them not having an aim of denying the existence of trans people or saying they should have no human rights.

No thought to the women who would be locked up with a transwomen and how to keep them safe. The men who all clapped along with it happy to give up women’s rights for them.

Well, if Nandy really believes this, she can prove it by volunteering to spend a week in a wing with transwomen sex offenders. Locked in. After all, the risks can be managed perfectly well, and transwomen are women, and anyone objecting is a bigot. Right?

Off you pop, Lisa. Walk the talk.

STILLTish article on current prison policy under Conservative government:

19th Sept 2019
'Ministry of Justice: Updated Policy on caring for Transgender Prisoners'
(extract)
The policy exposes how far the, legally protected, characteristic of sex has been eroded, by allowing anyone, regardless of biology, to declare they are a woman. The prison system is illustrative of just how far Gender Identity ideology is embedded within our legislature and enshrined in public policy.

Below is a quote 👇 from James Morton, of the Scottish Trans Alliance, which shows that Female prisoners are the subjects of a dangerous laboratory experiment. James is listed as an author of the Scottish Prisons Policy which deals with Transgender Prisoners. As James is a lobbyist for Trans Rights there is only one group at the forefront of the policy. Spoiler. Its not Women.

‘We strategized – we strategized – that by working intensively with the Scottish Prison Service to support them to include trans women as women on a self-declaration basis within very challenging circumstances, we would be able to ensure that all other public services should be able to do likewise’.

The above quote is illustrative of a complete disregard for the female prison population; one of the most vulnerable groups in our society. Domestic violence refuges, rape crisis centres and female prisons do seem to figure prominently in the targeted locations. Captive females are being targeted for this new branch of Men’s rights activism." (continues)

concludes: "I also have not spent a huge amount of time on the how hamstrung the front line staff are. They can’t make a prisoner disclose their sex. They can’t conduct a search with the purpose of identifying the sex of their prisoner. They can’t use blood tests to determine if a prisoner is on a regime of hormones. They can’t tell female prisoners if they have a male incarcerated with them. For MTFs it is rare for non-celebrities to have what is called “passing privilege” so I imagine it is perfectly obvious to the women. Yet the prison officers commit a criminal offence if they share that information. The prisoner has the right to demand to be searched by someone of the same “”gender” so female staff are also being disregarded.

Quite rightly the prison service is concerned that MTF Transgender people are at risk in the male estate. What jars is that this risk is explicitly acknowledged and care taken to protect a “transwomen” in the male estate. By contrast women in the female estate are not even allowed to know a male is housed within their estate.

Once again it is abundantly clear that the authorities have simply not consulted or listened to women. We are here. We are raising our voices. This is NOT ok."
gendercriticalwoman.wordpress.com/2019/09/19/ministry-of-justice-new-policy-on-caring-for-transgender-prisoners/

Anyone who is proposing to legislate for this should be made to share a prison cell for a month with a self-IDing rapist.

Gobsmacking.

I looked carefully though, and could see a lot of the audience weren't clapping (watch the shoulders).

She's fucking disgusting. Pure filth.

The clappers were going for the TWAW line I think (hope) more than the let's house the rapist in the women's prison.

Delightful.

Richard Garside on the BBC (he heads a prison reform charity and has been deplatformed extensively, despite working for all prisoners, most of whom are of course male...)

I think there's a really important point in all of this which is that today in England and Wales there are about 4000 women in prison. More than half of them will have had experiences of serious sexual and other forms of violence by men. They will have been traumatised by sometimes some very grotesque violence and what the current policy is asking those women to do is to share their spaces with prisoners who they, not unreasonably, will consider to be men. And I think the issues around secondary traumatisation and the stresses and anxiety - regardless of whether that male-bodied prisoner actually does anything - just purely being in their space is a source of great distress. Male bodied prisoners who identify as women clearly have a right to be respected in their expression and have a right to feel safe. Whether that should be at the expense of the many, many women in women's prisons today and women's feelings is another matter altogether. The prison service just needs to sort themselves out on this.

Garside has the shocking and outrageous view that the people who should decide whether transwomen are in women's prisons should be the women affected.

You can see why he was so hated from the very first time he spoke on this. Why, he made the following heinously transphobic comment: I myself do not feel in a position to pronounce on whether or not 'transwomen are women', as the current mantra would put it. As a man, I also feel uncomfortable about telling women what a woman is.

Bloody hell.

There’s doubling down, and then there’s.... I mean can she even hear herself?

Does she think crime stats and prisons are there to validate people’s feelings?

Yes, I don't think there were that many clappers, and there was some interesting body language in the audience at various times.

What this makes me think though, is that she's just not able to put the pieces together. Because if you did get it but wanted to deny that, this is not how you would go about it. When she says that TWAW TMAM is her starting point I think that may be literally true, it's a foundational assumption in her thinking. Probably accepted mainly because she believed that it was the only way to recognise people's validity or existence or whatever.

It just shows a lack of ability to analyse abstract ideas in a clear way. Relational thinking seems to be her strength, which is not a bad thing but it's limited and can go wildly astray if not paired with analytical ability. It's not adequate in a high level political leader who votes on policy questions though I'd guess it' makes for a strong constituency-work MP.

14th September 2020

James Kirkup 'If MPs can’t debate a rapist in a woman’s jail, politics has failed'
(extract)
Last week, it was confirmed that the State put a rapist and paedophile in a women’s prison. That rapist, who uses the name Karen White, then sexually assaulted four women in that prison.

This is, of course, an outrage, a failure of public administration of the first order. Many people are angry, among them members of the Government that oversaw this failure. Many people have questions about how that failure came about. How did the Prison Service come to decide that Karen White, a person with a male body and a history of violent sexual crimes, should be put in New Hall prison? (New Hall, incidentally, also has a ‘mother and baby unit.’ The State did not just put a rapist in a women’s jail, they put a convicted paedophile in prison with children).

Was this just a catastrophic failure of judgement? Was it the result of flawed policy on the handling of transgender inmates? Did a climate of unthinking acquiescence to the demands of a highly effective transgender rights lobby contribute to this horrible mistake?

These are all legitimate questions, questions that should be debated and answered by the ministers responsible. These are the questions that Parliament exists to debate: questions about the conduct of public policy." (continues)

David Davies, Tory MP for Monmouth, thus tabled an Urgent Question, a parliamentary request for the House to summon a minister to discuss the issues raised by the Karen White case, and of other transgender sex offenders in the prison estate. (Yes, there are others. There is at least one male-born rapist in a women’s prison today.)

The decision to grant a UQ and summon a minister rests with the Speaker, John Bercow. He grants a lot of UQs. That annoys ministers but pleases backbenchers. It’s probably the best aspect of his tenure as Speaker. I know he annoys a lot of people, but he’s been a good servant of the Commons, giving the legislature greater bite on the executive.

Given that, I’d have bet on him accepting a UQ on Karen White and transgender inmates. He didn’t. Mr Davies says the Speaker rejected his request. There are whispers that at least one other MP was also rebuffed.

To recap: the State put a rapist in a jail full of vulnerable women. That rapist then sexually assaulted four of those women. MPs wanted to know how that happened, and to question the ministers responsible for those events. The Speaker of the House of Commons said they could not do so.

The story of transgender policy in Britain today is a story of political failure, where many people fail to do their job and speak openly about matters of clear public interest. Writing about it this year, I’ve grown accustomed to that failure, though no less angry about it." (continues)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3365319-new-kirkup-article-about-bercow-s-refusal-to-let-mps-discuss-karen-white

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3366045-Why-did-Speaker-John-Bercow-refuse-to-let-MPs-debate-the-state-sponsored-abuse-of-women

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3396169-John-Bercow-sex-pest-ridicules-GC-Women-friend-of-Pink-News-Edward-Lord-who-refused-UQ-about-prison-policy-following-Karen-White-Case-Unconnected

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3298016-John-Bercows-rant-about-Gender-Critical-women

Does anyone know which hustings this was at?

The clappers were going for the TWAW line I think (hope) more than the let's house the rapist in the women's prison.

Tombakersscarf (name appreciation nod here), well, that's the funny thing. Like the gentle and kind hearted protesters in Manchester the other week who decided to take a stand against an anti-rape protest in the name of TWAW, it surely should be a bit alarming at how often TWAW as a declaration is adjacent to some rather nakedly abhorrent ideas.

I mean, we're not supposed to mention it, because it's not naice, and I think there will be deletions aplenty on this thread for that very reason, but it's one of things, once you notice, you can't miss.

Stupid woman!

Lisa Nandy MP does not understand Safeguarding whether that is for children who have been identified as transgender or vulnerable female prisoners. Neither do her advisors & supporters.

She is not the only politician & this is not solely a problem within the Labour party.