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to think if you have a penis, you do not belong in a woman's prison

(991 Posts)
RickRoll Thu 29-Oct-15 19:15:39

There is to be an appeal tomorrow, at Bristol Crown Court, regarding the decision to send violent criminal Tara Hudson, who works as a transsexual prostitute (still has a penis, as 80% of transsexuals do), to male prison. Tara wants to go to a female prison.

AIBU to think that if you have a penis, you should go to male prison?

People are arguing that Tara is at risk of sexual assault, but Tara is not unique in this - lots of (non transgender) men are vulnerable, and the prison service has a responsibility to protect them.

Tiredemma Thu 29-Oct-15 19:17:04

I agree very much with your comment about the Prison Service having a Duty of Care to all men with regards to keeping them safe from sexual violence.

ragged Thu 29-Oct-15 19:19:38

mmm, it's only for 12 weeks. Won't she have option to get out early if well behaved. I think there might be weirder individuals already in the men's prison.

BitchPeas Thu 29-Oct-15 19:19:43

Yanbu. She is a convicted violent criminal who IMO will be a danger to vulnerable female prisoners who are biologically smaller and weaker. She should go to a men's prison as she is still biologically a man. The prison service do have a duty of care to make sure she is safe. If that means solitary confinement for the duration of her sentence so be it. She broke the law she deals with the consequences.

DrWhooves Thu 29-Oct-15 19:20:48

YANBU. In a similar case transexual murderer Paris Green had to be moved after having sex with female prisoners. Female prisoners shouldn't have to share a cell with someone with male genitals, it's not appropriate.

EElisavetaOfBelsornia Thu 29-Oct-15 19:21:46

And all women, TiredEmma?

Annwfyn Thu 29-Oct-15 19:22:18

So you're arguing trans women are actually men?

Tiredemma Thu 29-Oct-15 19:22:37

Gosh of course yes- was just referring to the sentence in the original post.

ImperialBlether Thu 29-Oct-15 19:23:34

The thought of going to prison is one thing (obviously not the only thing) that would stop me deliberately breaking the law.

If I was a transsexual I would be very, very aware of what a prison sentence could mean for me and I'd do everything I could to avoid breaking the law. Tara committed a violent assault. What the fuck was she thinking?

catfordbetty Thu 29-Oct-15 19:23:44

I don't think we should be obliged to indulge a violent criminal, whatever the special case being presented.

RickRoll Thu 29-Oct-15 19:24:08

She is definitely strong, she declares that she is 5' 10" on her escorting profile, and that might be an understatement (transsexual prostitution is aimed at (non-transsexual) men who want 'feminine' men, and a tall transsexual is going to deter many people, so this is likely to be understated).

avocadoghost Thu 29-Oct-15 19:24:34

Oh here we go. Aren't there enough of these threads? Seems like you can't go a day without seeing a thread arguing that trans women are actually men hmm

HaydeeofMonteCristo Thu 29-Oct-15 19:25:40

Very much agree with comments that prison authorities have duty to protect all male (and female) prisoners from assault, and that just moving the few who are transexual is not answer to the bigger problem.

Otherwise, came on here to hear others' views. Seems to me very important to protect female prisoners from possible assault too, and that being imprisoned with someone who still has a penis is dangerous.

Not sure what the right answer is for transexual people themselves though. But I can't think it's an answer to expose the female prison population to a risk.

ExasperatedAlmostAlways Thu 29-Oct-15 19:25:55

If they have male genitals they should be in a male prison.

Oswin Thu 29-Oct-15 19:26:27

Why cant we talk about this. Are people gonna come along shouting bigots again.
If anyone cant see putting a penis holding person in a women's prison is madness then you need your brain checking.

BertrandRussell Thu 29-Oct-15 19:27:25

So what would you think ought to happen if a female prisoner did not want to share a cell with her? Should she be forced to?

ForalltheSaints Thu 29-Oct-15 19:27:26

I think a men's prison is the appropriate place. I don't blame the person though for appealing and trying to be in a place they would prefer.

CultureSucksDownWords Thu 29-Oct-15 19:27:41

This person Tara Hudson was born a biological male. As an adult they've had a boob job and reportedly been taking hormones (I've not seen any detail about exactly what). They wear stereotypically female clothing, hair and makeup. They are therefore a transwoman, which to me is a subset of men, not women.

ragged Thu 29-Oct-15 19:28:54

So what is the argument for male or female only prisons (or prison wings)? Why is this done it all?

Doesn't stop sex does it? But should prevent pregnancy.

Males could more easily overpower females and inflict abuse: or is someone now arguing that males having more muscle mass is just a social construct?

Anyway, On the basis this individual could both impregnate someone, and is more likely to be able to overpower females, has a physique more matched to the strength of men (guards more likely to be male in a male only prison), there is an argument the safest option is to put them with other men.

Without a penis might tilt decision other way.

RickRoll Thu 29-Oct-15 19:31:16

"So you're arguing trans women are actually men?"

Not all of them, but Tara makes it clear on her various profiles that she has a fully functioning penis

"Q. Can you maintain a full erection?
A. Of course [:p] I always give a full performance"

and markets towards heterosexual men (which is after all the purpose of breasts)

SuperT3d Thu 29-Oct-15 19:31:35

Pre op transexuals should go to which ever prison their birth gender is. Post op trans people should go to whichever prison they have realigned themselves to.

EatDessertFirst Thu 29-Oct-15 19:32:33

Male genitals belong in a male prison, regardless of their gender.

FWIW DP is a PCO in a male prison. They had a transexual prisoner and they were put in their own cell on a normal wing. They would have been moved very quickly, to solitary if need be, if they were deemed at risk in any way.

HaydeeofMonteCristo Thu 29-Oct-15 19:34:25

eatdessert that is exactly what I was thinking would probably happen.

JeffsanArsehole Thu 29-Oct-15 19:37:13

Male genitals that are fully functioning belong in a male prison

Whether their owned by a 'female' is irrelevant.

So a male prison is where she should be kept entirely safe as they have a duty of care towards her.

Cheby Thu 29-Oct-15 19:38:06

I agree with posters above and think she should go to a male prison. I've seen the petition circulated a lot on FB, and I think it's very misleading. It talks a lot about surgery and implies she has had genital surgery when she hasn't.

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