Aren't transpeople still a tiny minority?

[Waheymum]

Over about fifteen years, I've noticed growing awareness and concern about transpeople. This may be my age and simply a case of when people I knew started to transition.
What I'm wondering is whether there are statistics further to the last census on how many people are transitioning or have transitioned. This is because I'm pretty sure that men are still a bigger threat to women's safety than transgender (m-f) women are. I'm not saying that no transwoman poses a risk to women, I'm querying whether, statistically, I'm better off crossing the road to avoid a cisgender man or a transgender woman (if, hypothetically, one were on each side of the road).

You do know it's possible to be concerned about more than one issue at once, right? I'm concerned about the lack of money in the NHS, but I'm also concerned that woman was raped on a single-sex ward and then told it couldn't possibly have happened because it was a single-sex ward (it wasn't; a transwoman was on the ward and raped her).

No

It doesnt require women doing anything differently - why always pass the buck to women? 🙄

It requires men to campaign for appropriate accommodations if they need that. Not access to women's spaces (which is predatory).

They haven't shown much interest in third spaces however, so far. I wonder why that is?

Why not put a temporary sign on the women’s changing room that says ‘transmen’ (or even ‘men’ if it is only going to be transmen using it and it makes everyone feel validated), and vice versa for the men’s changing room? You could also stick up ‘AFAB’ and AMAB’ signs for non-binary swimmers.

No trans person, no man, nor woman is going into a public toilet because there arent any.

There are council toilets here still and few places like at coast we go to.

Also there are many privately owned by shopping centers pubs supermarkets cafe restaurants gyms swimming pools ( though they are council owned here) train stations that are open to the public.

We tend to access mostly privately owned ones open to a unveted section of the public when we do day trips and honestly even in usualy urban areas we find toilets with little to no problem. As we are with teens - it matters those are safe to use as well for us.

I don't know where you are that there such a dearth of toilet acesses and I agree there has been a substaial decline over time but I don't think it a choice of having no toilets or just unsafe mixed ones.

The point of the post is whether it's a marginal issue. It is. Whilst one may worry about lots of things at once - I assume that you worry more about the frequent sexual assaults on women in hospitals and old people's homes due to inadequate staffing and will vote accordingly as clearly that is more of a mainstream issue.

It doesn't have to be an either or and I don't know why you're pretending it does. It doesn't cost any more money to say that single-sex spaces are just that, does it?

I encountered 3 transwomen working in shops this morning while I was out in town, 1 in The Works, 1 in Boots and 1 in Poundland, all very obviously transwomen and not in any way passing as women before anyone says that you can’t tell. So I definitely think that while still a minority, that minority is smaller now than 10 years ago.

@Waheymum have you views on this new thread (much less comments than yours). Video by a bouncer with a lot of experience of running security at clubs in Brighton which have large LGBTQ+ client group. It's very informative.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5520134-security-stories-bouncer-discusses-his-experience-of-interacting-with-trans-patrons?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I live in London and in my local area we definitely have a dearth of public facilities. Toilets in our local park are mixed - I use them without thinking during the day and wouldnt use the in the dark same as with single sex toilets, mainly because I dont think that rapists who are likely to attack me in the dark care about such petty things as toilet signs.

Even if we were to have fully staffed hospitals with an endless supply of funding, allowing males into single sex female spaces would still pose a danger to patients and staff. The risk does not go away. It will never go away. That is the point of protecting our spaces.

As long as the trans people and allies who are lobbying institutions and filing court cases are the ones with extreme beliefs, it doesn't matter how reasonable the rest of them are.

'Trans people' are either male or female like everyone else. We have single sex facilities, services and categories in certain types of situation in order to provide dignity, comfort, safety, and equal access, especially to female people. The reasons we have such categories still exist and are still applicable no matter how many, or how few, people identify themselves as 'trans'.

Women will get raped anyway, so we shouldn't bother with safeguarding is a truly disgusting argument btw.

Single sex facilities are as much, if not more, about dignity and privacy than about the threat of rape. They exist in recognition of sex based differences - which remain even if someone identifies as 'trans'.

Not that old chestnut. Sure, a sign won't stop everyone, just like speed limits don't stop everyone from speeding, doesn't mean you should do away with them completely, does it?

And how are you defining these people you are calling 'women'? Are you suggesting that they might be more vulnerable than other people, and if so why?

The attempt to remove women's rights is not a marginal issue.

You can argue the toss about when single sex services are appropriate, but women's rights depend on sex being clearly being defined in law.

Ah, the prosecutors fallacy.

There are more men who don’t identify as trans so they as a group present more of a risk. But that tells us nothing about individual risk. When it comes down to individual men, those who claim to be women are several times more likely to commit a sexual offence than men who do not.

Did you completely miss the Sandie Peggy case? Darlington nurses? Edinburgh rape service?

Noone here is against 3rd spaces! It's the TRAs who won't accept it as an option.

Why do you think FWS went to the Supreme Court? It wasn't because they hated trans people. It was because the TRAs were insisting that trans identifying males should be allowed in women's spaces.

You are arguing with the people who have been pushing for what you are suggesting for over a decade.

Considering the OP was defending their gentle trans friend by lying (either the poster was lying or the person who told the poster was lying) about an interaction with Kellie Jay Keen on another thread where many of the same discussion points were posted at the time, I suspect they have heard every single one of the discussion points and has dismissed many of them.

I suspect that is how the Left manages the cognitive dissonance of being 'pro trans' but also 'pro- muslim/anti-western imperialism' at the same time.

So you do have access to public toilets but feel unsafe using them at certain times - fair enough but why should that mean that other people ie women should feel unsafe in them all the time because you make male access easier?

If women feel they are unsafe all the time I assume usage will decrease and then there's even less reason to keep them - making your access issues even worse?

Social convesntion used to mean seeing men who weren't cleaning or with a reaosn litoring or entering womens toilets would raise concerns or illict a reponse - now after many years of breaking that convesntion it offers less protection but it never meant men would never enter just that commnunity eyes would clock that and maybe intervene - that visblity tends to deter on the spur crime as much as anything.

I thinnk the numbers of cross dressers has long been under-estimated; but the trans movement has now given them permission and confidence ( even kudos) to do so in public, and encouraged many to take it 'full time'.

The minority thing is a red herring.

only a minority of men rape and assault women. But we can’t tell which ones they are so there is a blanket ban in women’s spaces.

only a minority of sports people indulge in doping, but we can’t tell which ones so we test everyone

only a minority of adults abuse children but we can’t tell which ones so we have secure child protection in placethat expects everyone to have DBS if they want to work with kids

only a minority of people will try and rob me but I can’t tell which ones so I lock my doors at night

only a minority of car trips culminate in an accident but I can’t tell which ones so I always wear a seat belt.

its all ‘because we don’t know’. And with transwomen we can’t know. Just like with all the other men.

Exactly

This is not difficult.

People are pretending not to understand

Agree, I assume these are the trans people just trying to live their life that Diverse is thinking of. One is a nurse and another, a doctor. Normal, respectable roles with a lot of responsibility.
Why does Diverse think they didn't find a 3rd space to be acceptable?