Aren't transpeople still a tiny minority?

[Waheymum]

Over about fifteen years, I've noticed growing awareness and concern about transpeople. This may be my age and simply a case of when people I knew started to transition.
What I'm wondering is whether there are statistics further to the last census on how many people are transitioning or have transitioned. This is because I'm pretty sure that men are still a bigger threat to women's safety than transgender (m-f) women are. I'm not saying that no transwoman poses a risk to women, I'm querying whether, statistically, I'm better off crossing the road to avoid a cisgender man or a transgender woman (if, hypothetically, one were on each side of the road).

Yes, that's where they also need to start listening. My experience of transpeople I know through my young person is that they aren't the radical fringe on transReddit.

Part of the problem is that it's the activists fighting amongst each other whilst the majority are far less radical and less bothered on either side. If we just started routinely building 3rd spaces and scheduling specifically trans-inclusive sessions where necessary I strongly suspect most trans people would breathe a sigh of relief.

A couple of dozen people in a northern town is a minority issue.....Now just because you have once seen one - doesnt not make it a minority issue.

What is not a minority issue is that we are all unsafe due to poor policing, we are all more at risk because services have been removed, our kids are less safe because safeguarding and verification and cash has been moved out of social services and children services. Trans people are really not a problem. The fact that we dont have any money to maintain a safe society is however an issue. The fact that people are so worried about transpeople but not the fact that we have unsafe staffing for hospitals that impacts everyone - is essentially pointing to this issue being a moral panic.

We can talk about the question of toilets and changing rooms - but the reality is that there are barely any toilets or changing rooms left anywhere regardless of gender because there is no cash.

We can talk about the use of public toilets - but lets be clear public toilets as in actually public are as rare as unicorns and frankly the discussion as to whether a unicorn is male or female is pretty much a minority issue. How many public facilities are currently left in our cities. How are they maintained? Can anyone find them etc etc etc.

Trans people didnt ruin our public toilets - austerity did

To summarise the data and include the one missing extra piece;

• Approx 20-23% of the male prison population in UK is in jail convicted of sexual offences
• 3.3% of the female prison population (your figures)
• 62.1% of the transgender (m to f) prison population (your figures)
• 0% of transgender (f to m) prison population (your figures)

Which changing room do non-binary swimmers use?

We’re talking about men love.

Third places would also suit more of the population - parents with both sex kids or any family combination were splitting sexes make things a bit harder.

I think through experience of them - mix toilets are common in nearby city in pubs and restaurants - changing villages are in ours city for sports I'd say design is very important to how safe these areas feel.

However that can't be discussed as third spaces are an additional cost - but due to reglious reasons and sexual assult experiences are inaccessible to all women so would need to be an addition to single sex. However section of trans population don't want them and we can't talk out saftey as a loud vocal group deny there's any increased risk.

Whichever they feel like I assume!
I have only met one non binary person (natal female) who attends. There are cubicles in the changing room.

I assume if it was an issue for them they wouldn't attend this particular swimming session but one of the many many others scheduled each week.

The pool I use has a unisex changing room with cubicles in any case...

No, it really isn't. Think how many women those two dozen men will affect when they enter women's spaces, and multiply that across every town and city and i nthe country and it really is not a minority issue. Not if you care about women's spaces and protections.

I dont care about whether I talk about men or woman - I want public toilets back. I would rather we had mixed everything - but actually had enough police so that rape wasnt essentially a legalised practice in this country, i want enough staffing in hospitals and care homes and enough social workers to sort out children services. These are issues that are not minority issues and that impact everyone, every day. Men and women.

The initial question is whether it is a minority question to which my answer is yes it is.

No trans person, no man, nor woman is going into a public toilet because there arent any.

You are arguing against something you are making up.

We have been arguing for third spaces on here for donkey's years. We keep saying that gender non-conforming is fine. Just that humans can't change sex. That's it.

Women have lost their jobs and been cancelled for taking exactly the stance you have here. You are saying nothing that hasn't been said by GC women repeatedly for years.

And yet you come here accusing us of saying 'all trans women are perverts'. Er nope. Trans women are men. Are all men perverts? Nope. But some are.

You and your son may be all for 3rd spaces but many men are absolutely not fine with this and continue to push for self-ID to get a free pass into women's spaces.

You referring to your son as 'she' when he is not even on this forum is part of the problem. You are participating in a lie that is fucking up society for women and girls.

It isn’t about the amount of trans people it’s about the impact of the ‘trans debate’. It cuts right to the core of what it is to be a woman, and subsequently to the core of women’s rights. It’s about changing definitions in law, or attempting to, about changing language, or attempting to, and the effect of those changes.

You do know that mixed sex spaces, including toilets, are much less safe than seperate sex ones, right?

I think that most here would agree with everything you say here (except, people don't have 'perceived privilege' because of their sex; they have actual legal rights).

And when we make fun of people like Aida Paul or India Willoughby, it is a little self-indulgent.

If we mention Isla Bryson, it's to remind people that transwomen still have the strength and criminal propensity of a man, so they can appreciate the full horror of being forced to share a prison cell with them. But yes, the general public have got that message, so maybe we could lay off a bit.

We know that trans people are both rare and mostly harmless. It's the laws and customs that have been put in place at their behest that are harmful.

You need to direct your arguments, not at us, but at the institutions that, for example, refuse to provide single-sex services, or refuse to hire out venues where men, women, lesbians, or gays can meet exclusively with each other.

There is a lack of publicly own facilities, but there are lots of privately own toilets and changing rooms (own by shops, restaurants and gyms, schools,universities).

We shouldn't not ignore men trying to use these facilities provided for women and girls just because there are issues with the provision of public toilets generally.

We have the figure in proportion to different population estimates. Please be assured that those proportions are nothing resembling the female population offender statistics.

And yes, it is a small base. However, even taking a generous approach, again the figures are not even close to being as low as female offence statistics.

No matter how much some people may which to dismiss what these statistics indicate for example with warnings about how they are a measure of who gets caught, non custodial sentences etc, the pattern remains the same. Male people do not commit sex offences at a rate equal to or lower than the general female population. They remain close to the general male population.

I have even been through ‘non-custodial’ conviction lists and I am confident that there are a good proportion of male people with transgender identities who are not getting custodial sentences after they claim to be vulnerable.

Do you think that male people generally are getting lenient non-custodial sentences more than those with transgender identities? or are you just trying to play devil’s advocate?

It’s astounding isn’t it. When we look at the Global South for example there’s no problem acknowledging the importance of single-sex facilities. Maybe people like @BbjghiIfewh think ‘those people’ are just less civilised than ‘us’.

@MulderandBambi what is most unsafe is having no toilets.

What is most unsafe is having no facilities - we as a society have completely given up on the public and the collective. That is what is unsafe. We have left our public services to rot to the point where everyone is unsafe all the time. Trans people or not really doesnt tip the balance either way. If there is no police - we are all unsafe. If there are no children services - we are all unsafe. If there are no toitels - we are all unsafe.

I have no problem campaiging for more toilets, but I don't think mixed sex is the answer when assaults ans voyeurism increase signifantly in them, do you?

There's no point campaigning for more toilets when so many people will opt out of using them if they're mixed either.

And of course, toilets are really the least of it (but still important) when it comes to this issue. I'm far more concerned about the situation in prisons, and refuges, and hospitals, for example.

@gonnarunoutofnames I dont know what you understand by the global south - in China - public facilities are now often individualised. In other parts of the global south - having facilities full stop is a priority. Using a totalising notion of the Global South is just racist.

I think this illustrates my point about broadening the focus out from the [very important] issue of safety to precisely the ' philosophical, abstract' issues that BbjghiIfewh likes to debate. So do I.

Where I differ from BbjghiIfewh is that I do NOT find these issues 'highly irrelevant' at all. I believe that some things, even things I do not have direct personal experience of, are matters of principle, and therefore relevant to all people with an interest in principles. Like me

Even if women do not feel physically threatened by transwomen, even if they have not to the best of their knowledge ever even met a TW, the concept of transgenderism is damaging to women in that it destroys the category 'women' by including in it members of the category 'men'.

A set which comprises people who have a certain characteristic - in this case, being biologically female - ceases be the same if it is forced to include people who do not have the significant identifying characteristic.

The very word 'woman' has been deprived of its obvious and clear meaning -even the simple definition 'adult human female' is seen as a transphobic trope.

It is the tiny minority of transpeople who have 'hijacked' the topic, not the Daily Mail or gender-critical women.

So before we even get into women's everyday rights, single sex spaces, free speech, safety from male violence, etc., challenging the loud, aggressive, manipulative and sometimes violent movement that appropriates women's words and identity is not 'highly irrelevant' at all, and the only aspect of this that has been 'spun out of proportion' has been the undue influence of the trans rights activists on so many areas of society.

Really? You think so?

We've literally been suggesting this for the last 10 years.

It's met with 'transphobia!', it's 'outing' etc etc etc.

MulderandBambi I am also concerned about hospitals but mainly that NHS trusts have no cash to employ anyone. That hospitals fall below safety standards full stop. That waiting times are still so long that UK cancer survival rates are so poor they are behind comparable European countries.

@Diverze has exactly the same right to post views and experiences on here as everyone else. I think @Diverze at least deserves respect for defending the viewpoint of their child on here, which takes some bravery on this forum, regardless of whether we agree or not. I think they have been honest about the difficulties parenting a child who feels like this. The problem, always, with this debate,is that there is so little room for any empathy, on either side.

I would be interested in a survey of trans people on the matter.