How do navigate things with older/adult dc who are pro-trans ideology if you are not?

[Fancycrab]

Just wondering those of you who are GC and have teenagers or young adult dc who strongly support trans ideology, how do you navigate this? Do you just agree not to discuss it? Does it ever interfere with your relationship? My DD is still little but her dad, who I’m separated from is very pro trans rights and believes the whole gender ideology bollocks. I worry that he will brainwash DD into believing it too when she’s older and she’ll end up seeing me as the uncool, unprogressive one who just “doesn’t get it” 🙄

Not living up to his user name, unfortunately.

Decent people obey the law.

Unisex spaces are available for those who don't want to use the correct facilities for their sex.

People with disabilities plan their trips out to make sure that they can manage the trip and that there are the right facilities available at their destination.

People with trans identities could do that, and also campaign for more (additional) unisex facilities. Every single GC or sex realist person on this board would almost certainly support that campaign.

However, IW (male) will walk by the unisex facilities to use the ladies' and crow about it online.

As I said: Decent people obey the law.

Quite

The irony affects me as well.

Mostly we don’t discuss. They think I am transphobic. I think they are naive sheep, going along with what their peers say.
But occasionally, an opportunity presents itself for a good discussion. Example - in my daughter’s 6th form show, the part of one half of a gay male couple was given to a girl who said she was a boy. All pupils and teachers affirmed this. Nothing about her appearance, aside from short hair, gave any indication that she felt she was a boy. She wore some makeup, had a slight build and an unmistakably female face. But she was playing the part of a gay man and the dialogue and action relied on them being seen as a gay couple. I pointed out to my daughter that this made no sense at all to the audience, who could have no way of knowing what was inside this girl’s head and could only see on stage a heterosexual couple, not a gay couple. Despite the fact they she believed this girl was a boy because she said so, my daughter could agree that the casting was problematic.

Meeee! Meeee! I'm affected too!
🙄

"There is nothing that will ever convince them that trans people are real people."

What a silly post. Who actually thinks trans people aren't real people? What a lot of nonsense hyperbole.

They are not real people of the opposite sex, however.

Re PP comment about GC views not being particularly 'radical': radical feminism uses the term 'radical' as in root or origin. That society needs fundamental reform in order to liberate women, not tinkering about around the edges.

Most radical feminists are GC as those views tend to fit together. Not all those with GC (sex realist) views are radical feminists, however.

I agree, being a sex realist isn't particularly drastic/extreme/ out there.

Trans "women" are by their very definition male and not actually women and therefore it is only right that they should be excluded from single sex spaces, even if I believed in their ridiculous conception of gender, it is impossible for a human to change sex and the law protects the characteristic of sex not a persons imagined gender identity.

Some people believe the earth is flat and that we are ruled by lizard people, lots of people believe ideas that are verifiably untrue, the gender woo brigade are just another group in that category.

By definition a transwoman has to be a biological male.

@onepostwonder what do you think of this issue? Trans women who have a history of sexual assault against women being housed in female prisons. I cannot possibly see an argument for this when there is so much hard evidence to show they are, and have been sexually abusive to the women they’re housed with? And it’s not the same as “well other female prisoners sexually assault their fellow prisoners too”. Yes they do, and both experiences must be horrendous but being sexually assaulted by another woman is just not the same as being sexually assaulted by a man..or to be kind, a trans woman with a penis.

Sorry, in Italy at the moment.

I would say everyone guilty of sexual assault of anyone should be sent to a maximum security institution, no questions, no exceptions. Trans women who have been violent, sexually or otherwise, toward women should be scrutinised and attention paid to the context and level of violence. I personally would not house a prison-onset trans woman with any non-trans women. I would also be unlikely to house them with trans women, to be honest.

I think the gleefulness I've seen here (other prison threads) from posters who promote prison rape as some type of justice is disgusting and unfeminist.

I would say everyone guilty of sexual assault of anyone should be sent to a maximum security institution, no questions, no exceptions.

This first sentence doesn't seem consistent with this second sentence:

Trans women who have been violent, sexually or otherwise, toward women should be scrutinised and attention paid to the context and level of violence.

Trans identifying men's sexual violence is to be contextualized, but not that of men who don't claim to be women?

You may want to have another go at thinking this though.

You're right, sorry. Starting over.

I would say everyone guilty of sexual assault of anyone should be sent to a maximum security institution, no questions, no exceptions. Yeah, a penis is a penis regardless of who it is attached to.

I feel violent offenders should be treated similarly. There are likely contexts such as self-protection that can lessen the applicability of the second statement, but that is up to the system to ajudicate.

I think trans women (and trans men) should be scrutinised based on their life status. Trans women (and trans men) aren't a monolith and a case by case evaluation is fair accommodation within an institution such as a prison.

I have no idea how prisons operate so I'm not the right person to suggest how integration could occur.

”I think the gleefulness I've seen here (other prison threads) from posters who promote prison rape as some type of justice is disgusting and unfeminist.”

Who has done this? Which posters have ‘promoted’ this as some kind of justice on MN?

This is a very serious claim to make.

You simply cannot bring yourself to say that all transwomen should be placed in men's prisons, irrespective of their crimes or their feelings can you.

I don't have time to search the site, but the most recent example is here:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5487536-this-never-happens-another-transwoman-rapist-going-to-prison-in-scotland?reply=150392795&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share&utm_source=copylink

Of course not. Trans women aren't men.

I have no proof because I don't generally think about this, but based on what seems to be the frequency of prison onset transitions talked about here, very few trans women commit serious crime after some point in their transitions. I would suggest it would be unsafe to house those women with men. Some trans women absolutely cannot be safely housed with men.

I think my most extreme thought (which is incomplete and unbaked) would be the use of of a trans-only estate for non-violent trans offenders.

Well of course 'transwomen' are men.

There can be no space in this discussion for scientific illiteracy or flat out lying.

If trans identifying men are vulnerable in the male estate, they should be handled in the same way as any other vulnerable man in the male estate.

They are men. It’s literally the only prerequisite to be a transwoman.

So you have read this as someone promoting rape?

I read it as someone celebrating that a child rapist is being jailed. And that the male prisoner is not going into a female prison.

Can you clarify if you think that rapists should go to jail, particularly those raping YOUNG GIRLS? Or do you wish to portray everyone as just being prejudiced and will throw any accusation you think of and hope someone reading will agree ?

Would you like to defend that rapist’s claim to be in the female prison?

Then you have not been following the news.

There are plenty of already ‘transitioned’ male people committing sex and violent crime at a similar rate at least to too male people. I’m trying to disprove a male person who declared that the prisoner stats were flawed, I followed quite a number through. There are also surprisingly male people who had already transitioned who were convicted but given non-custodial sentences due to their ‘vulnerable’ status who then ended up being convicted for further crimes.

I don't have time to search the site is what someone who can't find the examples they imagined they'd find very quickly might say when they realize that.

People who post on this site are individuals who post a range of opinions, some of which will be objectionable to different cohorts.

Gleeful posting of prison rape as a type of justice is not a consistent theme I've encountered here.

”Trans women aren't men.”

I have no proof because I don't generally think about this, but based on what seems to be the frequency of prison onset transitions talked about here, very few trans women commit serious crime after some point in their transitions.”

Apparently, there is nothing ideological about male people declaring a gender identity that is that they are female. Yet, these sentences strike me as not based on any fact but is based on wishes.