Is anyone on here trans-inclusive?

[plinkyplonk123]

Hi everyone, this is just a quick post to ask if anybody else on here is trans inclusive? I know I’m definitely in the minority here but I just wanted to see.

You believe the performance of regressive gender stereotypes of the type women have been trying to escape for decades makes a man a woman if he performs them

I'll stick with being critical of those stereotypes

Not accept pseudo scientific garbage is not the same as not having empathy.

It was a, successful, sex discrimination case. The judge wrongly used the term gender in the summing up.

It seems that figuratively masturbating by agreeing on a forum that men aren’t women is apparently worse than men literally masturbating in women’s spaces or to trans porn as a show of support.

Then show some!

There was nothing pseudoscientific in the post you replied to.

We all support trans people. That doesn't mean fully intact males in female spaces though, especially when they are jacking off in a cubicle in the ladies.

🤦🏻‍♀️

What do you want me to do? Post loads of performative waffle for your delectation. That wouldn't be empathy either, that would be pointless virtue signalling

And of course it was pseudo science, bloody read it 😂😂😂

Completely agree. I'm just interested in the idea that OP divides the world into TI or demonisers and I'm not entirely sure she understands what being TI truly means.

Which is that, unless you can present a similarly lengthy set of serious female sexual offenders of recent years (spoiler: you won't find anything close to the same number...), this list is clear evidence of increased risk.

That women generally offend less than men isn't evidence that trans inclusion in women's spaces has resulted in an increased risk to women. Comparing a broad group to a specific one in a specific environment is a false equivalence. Different groups of people offend at different rates. Younger, poorer, straight men offend at significantly higher rates than older, wealthier or gay men. Gay women offend at higher rates than straight women & in fact gay women offend at higher rates than gay men. And in any case, given the trans population is so small its impossible to draw any statistical meaningful conclusions from their offending.

can you share the numbers of transwomen who have suffered similarly serious assaults to those listed above, but in male spaces, by males?

See: trans women in male prisons.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10484126/

Trans inclusive in terms of believing trans people should be able to participate in public and private life and not be discriminated against - of course.

'Trans inclusive' in terms of ignoring the rights and dignity of women girls and gaslighting society that people are whatever they say they are no questions asked - no.

Males are sadly often raped in male prisons and have been for centuries. It's not about trans. It's about male on male violence.

How is that females problem to solve?

On page 9 already, can I congratulate you on creating the storm you were looking for, I suspect to confirm your own confirmation bias.

Please note that the responses you get on this thread will not be representative of the way the majority of women feel, and probably not representative even of the majority of MN members.

It is piffle though, that post. The whole point of the problem with self ID is that you don’t have to undertake any form of “arduous journey” to start demanding access to women’s spaces. A man can just wake up tomorrow and decide to do it.

Bizarre that the risk for men isn't acceptable but it's ok to shift that on to women. I say bizarre but actually it's very in-keeping with TRA misogyny.

I've had about ten years of involvement in this. My patience has run out. Fortunately all opinion polls and most legal cases on this issue indicate that the majority of the public and our institutions are on the gender critical side of the debate, or as I would prefer to call it, the side of biological reality and common sense.

The untold harm done in the name of gender ideology will take a long time to root out and the physical harm done to some trans-identified people will sadly affect them for the rest of their lives. With luck we can get back to where we were, or where I believed we were - an understanding that humans like all the other mammals have two sexes, female and male, which means two different body types and two different reproductive roles. We have to allow for this in how we structure society, e.g. by legislating for pregnant women to get maternity leave and pay.

We don't have to impose harmful gender stereotypes that are based on false beliefs that women and girls must dress and behave in one way, men and boys in another, or that women and girls are inferior to men and boys, have different intellectual powers etc etc. A boy who wants to wear pink and have long hair and play with dolls is a boy. A woman who is sexually attracted to other women and doesn't want to look like a human Barbie doll is still a woman. There is nothing wrong with gender nonconforming people and they should not be brainwashed into thinking there is and that they need to identify as the opposite sex to fit in and be accepted.

It isn't piddle. For whatever reason, potentially excepting the autogynophiles, these people lead difficult lives.

I, and I suspect most humans, can empathise with that without agreeing to any unreasonable demands.

When you get to the bottom of it, very little distinguishes TRAs from Incels.

THIS. I dont "demonise" anyone, but men who identify as women have no place in women's spaces. I feel unsafe.

For whatever reason, potentially excepting the autogynophiles, these people lead difficult lives.

The post said a whole lot more that that though. Which was piffle.

None of that has the slightest thing to do with basic human empathy for people who are struggling mentally and potential physically, so why you've quoted me I don't understand.

Yes I am. At least regarding to the transpeople I know.

I think that’s where things fall apart… The trans community covers a huge spectrum of what is views particularly regarding what is considered to be unsafe.

I have no problem with people dressing as they want or choosing the name they want to be known by. I don’t believe humans can change sex and I don’t believe trans women should be competing in women’s sports or using women’s sex segregated changing rooms. Some Trans people recognise the issue with this and would use an alternative space so women do not feel unsafe, however there are others who suggest they then feel unsafe and they should be permitted access.

it comes down to a clash of rights, who has the right to that space… I would argue it is natal females. I do not demonise the trans community but I also have my own belief system.

If you had the word militant in there I would agree with you, but most trans people aren't militant.