Is anyone on here trans-inclusive?

[plinkyplonk123]

Hi everyone, this is just a quick post to ask if anybody else on here is trans inclusive? I know I’m definitely in the minority here but I just wanted to see.

I’m not saying that in general, but in the case of my friends it was very clear that they were meant to be born male. I think it’s quite narrow-minded to ignore the fact that there is a huge spectrum, and that genitalia doesn’t always define gender. The body is really just a shell.

You can’t deny that sometimes you see men who are very feminine and, unsurprisingly, they turn out to be gay, and the same goes for very masculine women. There’s a whole spectrum of expression and identity.

But as a previous pp posted, this is an echo chamber for the anti trans movement so I’m not going to engage with people here who have such different view points and have no interest in listening to anyone else’s.

The body is really just a shell

A shell for what exactly?

Was wondering the same. If it's just a shell, why all the trans male angst about presenting as female?

It's baffling, isn't it.

Only some people have a 'gender', referring to a 'gender identity'. The only commonality between those with a gender identity is their philosophical belief about themselves that does not reflect material reality.

Sex is only defined by body formation and is categorised as being whether a body has been formed around the function of producing large or small gametes, regardless of the production status of those gametes are. Sex is only binary and only male or female.

People should be encouraged to express themselves in whatever identity they want. That identity should not be prioritised above the person's sex category when sex matters though. And no one should be pressured or forced into acting as if they believe any person's idenitity is based on material reality when it is not.

Material reality will abide regardless of anyone's philosophical belief.

This is quite funny really

meant to be born the opposite sex - to that encoded in every cell in their body?
Meant by whom or what? God?

genitalia can’t define gender because gender is a personal perception- one that ca change over time and is set in relation to the norms of your society

gender isn’t sex
sex is what your genes determines - and unless you have a genetic disorder it defines your genitals.

this is why so many people have so little respect for transgender ideology

I am, I have absolute respect for how anyone wants to live their life and completely detest any kind of abuse to anyone. I treat everyone with respect for their choices and think that society should accept everyone and treat everyone as equal.

But when I get my smear test, turn up at my menopause support group, or (god forbid) ever have need to go to a rape crisis centre, I’d expect to only encounter biological females in those spaces.

In what sense is it 'clear they were meant to be born male'?

Genitalia defines SEX. As for gender, there is no consensus what that even is, so I fail to see its relevance beyond the individual themselves.

When it comes to single sex spaces, gender is of no relevance.

Been lurking on here as i got on with my day noticeably one person was passive aggressive to another person as they wanted attention and would not back off

typical behaviour which I cannot be doing with

cults are vile trans ideology is vile and thats it for me

In what sense is it 'clear they were meant to be born male'?

I'd like to know this too.

Me too

You think gay men aren’t really men?

Do you apply the same prejudice to lesbians?

It's at the heart of the issue, isn't it? Some people's claim to have an inner "knowledge" of themselves as something other than what they are.

It's very hard to distinguish between men who think they're women on the one hand, and people who think they're the Pope or Napoleon Bonaparte (except for the real Pope), anorexia sufferers who think they're overweight, and a variety of other troubling psychological disorders.

Well, I do not include transwomen into the cohort of women. Because they are men.

But people talk a lot about "inclusiveness" without really understanding what is meant by that word.

Inclusiveness means a space for everyone, not everyone in the same space. So by that standard, I guess I am.

What a strange and random response!

Just following the logic of your argument.

To be honest, I picked up on it, too. There's a regressive streak in the post that sparked that commend, as if effeminate men were meant to be gay, and butch women were meant to be lesbians. And almost that being gay was half-way to being trans, which is what is really going on with camp men. It reads as if the "butch" or "effeminate" comes first, which then makes sense when they "find out" they're gay or lesbian.

Very revealing, and very regressive.

But if you tell me that there is more to being a woman than simply being of the female sex, something that is not a secondary consequence of the specific social and physical environment in which she lives but an intrinsic quality that is fundamentally and definitionally "woman", then I know it isn't who I am.

Do you see the problem? In redefining womanhood from a simple physical fact to accomodate your own sense of self, you assume/impose an identity onto me and every other woman that is entirely defined by your own personal concept of womanhood.

Genuinely, how the hell can you possibly beloeve you have the moral right or god like oversight to tell every woman in the world who she is?

How exactly?

By reading the words in your post. Your stereotyped, reductive, homophobic words.

Perfectly happy for trans people to have exactly the same rights as everyone else - as they already have - and be 'included' in society - as they already are. Men can't use women's spaces and rights though.

I never said gay men are not really men, and nothing in my argument logically leads to that claim. That is something you added, not something I argued.
If you want to disagree with me, disagree with what I actually said rather than replacing it with a more extreme version that is easier to attack.

Perhaps you can explain why you referred to gay men at all.

Oh dear. I’m out! What a waste of my time 🤣