Is anyone on here trans-inclusive?

[plinkyplonk123]

Hi everyone, this is just a quick post to ask if anybody else on here is trans inclusive? I know I’m definitely in the minority here but I just wanted to see.

Back in the 90s Eddie Izzard once joked "these aren't women's clothes; they're my clothes." This was funny, clever and progressive.

These days Eddie thinks wearing high heels, fishnets and make-up entitles him to access to women's spaces. And we're told this is progressive.

Could any of the trans-inclusive feminists on the thread explain to me why Eddie's current position isn't a massive, sexist piss-take? Thanks.

I haven't seen anyone demonise anyone on these threads.

Most agree that men can dress as they like and call themselves what they like, however we don't have to believe a dress and lippy make them a woman and allow them into women only areas, that's all.

I don’t demonise it as a whole. I only take umbrage at opportunistic men using trans as an all-access pass to women and girl spaces for their own selfish wants (whether that’s predatory or sports related etc). Genuine people who just want to go about their business peacefully don’t bother me at all.

I said TRAs not trans people

Some of the worst TRAs are not trans themselves

That's encouraging. So the current policy/law is that women are entitled to single-sex spaces (this one's a fact, it's just that there's a great deal of misinformation out there). Which suggests you acknowledge that we now need solid data that trans-identifying males are being harmed by using male spaces to a sufficient degree to unambiguously outweigh the reams of data showing that single-sex spaces are necessary to females.

The silent majority, not even feminists - everybody - knows that people can’t change sex.

From the 70s onwards people were generally tolerant of trans (then called transexuals) and feminists were their biggest champions. But now this legal fiction has become a farce and every weasel male rapist, pervert and opportunist realises what an incredible loophole this ‘tolerance’ is. So fuck that. No. Men need to stay in their box and women’s spaces need to remain sacrosanct.

Transmen ie. women I have no problem with.

What does that make me then? I’d say, the same as the vast majority of ordinary people - tolerant when it’s treated as the peccadillo it is, not the religious cult it’s become.

To be honest OP, asking this question is like asking people who are racist if they are racist. Especially on this website.

A lot of people on here are transphobic but they will not admit to it when that word is actually used.

Autistic traumatised teenage girls have difficult lives.

Mentally unwell women identifying as men being put in men’s mental health wards and being subjected to rape have difficult lives.

But even if there is a subset of men within the subset of men who say they’re trans who have actually had difficul lives, it’s does not change the fact that the vast majority of men looking to access women’s spaces have not been through an “arduous journey”.

The whole point of self ID is to make it easier for those who have no intention or interest in pursuing an “arduous journey” gain access to women’s spaces. It’s a campaign to allow the non-arduous journey men to gain with no arduous journey.

Failing to understand that is piffle.

I do not give a fuck if people call me transphobic.

I don’t want to sit and discuss my trauma in a space where there are men.

I have zero issue with men wanting to discuss their trauma in a space that doesn’t include women.

I don’t want a male body in a space where I undress or perform bodily functions.

I don’t want a man taking my daughter’s space on the women’s sports team she plays for.

if that makes me transphobic so be it.

edit to add. If believing men can’t become women and women can’t become men makes me transphobic then that’s fine by me. Call me it if you like.

if not believing men can become women and also believing that women deserve their lawful rights to single sex spaces upheld is 'transphobic'. Then yes I obviously am transphobic.

What's wrong with that position?

I've yet to see an actual transphobic person on here (unless your definition of 'transphobia', @rockinrobins , is women, girls and rape survivors fighting to retain our hard won female only single sex spaces, then if that is your definition, you are massively unreasonable) but I have seen more than a fair few posters on here, especially drive-by posters, who are femphobic and misogynistic. And hateful and dismissive towards the needs of the female sex class.

Also want to add.

I left here for a period of time because there was a man posting on FWR and posting in a performative way, and calling women stupid, who didn’t make it clear he was male. And I felt incredibly violated.

If all that makes me a bigot and transphobic and not supportive of men wanting to be allies. So what.

call me what you like. I don’t give a fuck. I’m not going to sit down and shut up and let men invade women’s safe spaces.

I think the trans cult is dangerous for confused children and undermines the role of women and their boundaries.
clear enough for you?

@rockinrobins those were for you sorry I forgot to tag you.

I’ve been told before that I’m weaponising my trauma to justify my transphobia. What do you think of that?

In centring trans there you miss the whole point. So you can say the word transphobic until you’re blue in the face but it just shows you really don’t understand. Go and educate yourself and then come back and tell us how allowing males unfettered access to women’s spaces is unproblematic. We are all here for it.

I do deeply hope this is intended as irony.

What do you mean by inclusive?

If you mean people with penises currently previously being in womens private spaces, then no.

Which does not make me trans exclusionary , but its what you want to hear, so there you go.

The claim was about trans women being at an increased risk which as the evidence shows are & not because they are male but specifically because they are trans.

"How is that females problem to solve?"

The same reason the sexual violence of women is the rest of societies responsibility. You don't sound like you understand the implications of not applying principles consistently.

OP opens charged thread then pisses off without a trace. Surprise surprise. MNHQ should delete thread or their account. Preferably both.

the fact that the vast majority of men looking to access women’s spaces have not been through an “arduous journey”.

Fact? I doubt you can substantiate that "fact" and in the absence of any data how do you think you can judge what other people have and have not found mentally arduous?

Taking the autogynophiles out, I would imagine it's profoundly uncomfortable to feel that you have got the wrong body.

<hands out Tunnocks while we wait for OP to return>

So men, being badly treated by other men, in men's spaces ...

And you think that's women's problem to solve?

Hard no. Women have enough bad treatment at the hands of men to be dealing with on their own account.

How dare anyone suggest the buck stops with women here.

OP has achieved what they set out to achieve, haven't they?

Women's spaces aren't a reward for an 'arduous journey'

I’m sure it is really uncomfortable to feel you have got the wrong body.

definitely sure. Absolutely.

why does that feeling trump my feelings?