Is anyone on here trans-inclusive?

[plinkyplonk123]

Hi everyone, this is just a quick post to ask if anybody else on here is trans inclusive? I know I’m definitely in the minority here but I just wanted to see.

This implies that once someone has had their male genitalia removed, they can in your view access female spaces.

I’m sure that’s not what you meant, because we can’t make a habit out of checking people’s genitals before admission to a space, and most people draw the line at “born male” and not “has/has not got male genitals.”

A trans-identifying woman was allegedly raped twice after being placed on a men's psych ward.

A swift reminder that this thread was almost certainly started to distract us from talking about this incident, which could not have happened if she had been housed on a women's ward.

The alleged offenders are now on trial.

Is anyone on Reddit or Bluesky GC?

Trans people have the same rights as everyone else.

However transwomen do not (in the UK) and should not have access to women's sex based rights, spaces or sports.

Facts do not equal 'erasure'. Believing in a biological reality is not a crime against the trans community. We're not responsible for them being sold a pack lies.

Don't expect all women to remain silent (and to 'be kind'). Especially when faced with aggressive and bullying behaviour from TRA's.

🤘

I'm being misrepresented, straw-manned, undermined, attacked.. none of those things are discussion. I've had a few interactions that have been civil, fruitful & interesting. The rest of them have been agenda-driven & superior. Crack on, I've experienced this all my life as a non-typical presenting neurodiverse person, I don't expect it to change any time soon but I do know my worth, and that some people will forever move the goalposts to be right. Very few people on here have asked me a question with an option for me to be right, if you think I can't see the different techniques you use to shut down dissent then you severely underestimate the comprehension of those around you. We don't usually engage because there is pretty much no point, engaging today has only concreted this view.

I think this is interesting, because from what I understand it sometimes is good practice to agree with somebody who is mentally ill or delusional. (Using delusional in its medical sense, not to cause offence).

It's not quite the same, but have relatives with dementia, and it's not recommended that you constantly correct them.

However, what you wouldn't do is yourself make decisions according to what they believe, and you certainly wouldn't use it to create policy or legislation.

I am not comfortable with my body because I don't identify with it. It's as simple as that. Now I know this I see it as a machine, a system to enable me to be alive. I'm glad I got here, I wouldn't have been able to do it if I'd stayed in the accepted mindset.

Indeed. Access to female single sex provisions should never be based on whether a male person has undergone extreme body modification. Not only is it quite cruel in essence to 'reward' a male person with access if they do 'enough', it is actually irrelevant. They are still male.

A good way to look at it is what is the exact difference between a male person who has lost their penis and testes and on hormones due to injury or disease and one that has elected to undergo these procedures for the purpose of their chosen identity?

Of course this happened 🙄

The thing is that I think that in this case if people confirm your thoughts they embed in and your chance of recovery reduces

being told “you are female , that’s ok, that’s just how it is, that doesn’t affect anything you want to do, ignore the people who think you are strange , they are just weak minded people “ was rather more helpful for me anyway

With dementia there is no recovery

Those are your feelings. Feelings and reality are not necessarily the same thing, though.

You have come onto a very specific board and you are finding people who post here are challenging you. Because this is a board where people who tend to have the same issue with gender ideology gather, you find you are in a minority. Your feelings go with this kind of territory. Yet there is no compulsion for you to continue to post.

But keeping up with suggestions that people are "unkind", "not nice" and so on is not going to achieve what you want to it to achieve. It may make you feel better about yourself, though.

I haven't asked anyone to agree with me, I've just asked that they respect my view of myself. But yeah, you're right, I don't want to speak to people who can't even concede that kindness.

I understand that completely. However I will say that in my work I had a lot of customers who had severe mental health issues and sometimes I did have to point out that their view of 'reality' was not correct and could seriously harm themselves or others. Which was the time where I phoned their psychiatrist. Had I agreed with them I wasn't acting in their best interests.

I cat respect your view of yourself - it’s like asking me to respect the person who thinks of themselves as caring when they are caring only of themselves

ie no one has the right to be respected no matter what

respect is earned not given

I don't think I said biology mattered less than biology? I said something like that, maybe I mistyped. Anyway, I don't think that. And thank you for a civil reply. Bowing out now, I think there's little more for me to learn, apart from reinforcing my resolution not to engage online.

What do you understand as 'the accepted mindset' - that people should be gender conforming?

Additionally there are many who post on this board who have been through what you describe themselves, and so we do understand your self concept as you feel it - it is just that we are challenging the very structure of that self definition/ concept. You are operating and experiencing yourself from within a very certain framework which has been trending for quite a few years now...whereas our critiques are coming outwith that ideological framework.

I don't have the answers for the issues that arise around law.

Of course you don't.

You can't reconcile the end game of what you are arguing for with your self image as a reasonable and respectful person, so to protect yourself you just don't go there.

It's classic #BeKind. You think you should be allowed to demand the fluffy stuff without challenge while making the hard stuff someone else's problem.

I have very little respect for people who give themselves a comfortable position giving sanctimonious little lectures about being kind and tolerance while refusing to acknowledge the impact on women of what they preach because "I don't know" and "it's too hard". They think as long as they don't say out loud where it ends up, then they ca't be held accountable for it, and when Feminists point out the problems that they are too cowardly to acknowledge they scold the feminists.

What is the "accepted mind-set", though?

I agree that sometimes it's not possible.

I wonder how much the idea that it's not always helpful to contradict people with a psychological impairment has spilled over into the idea that they can only be affirmed?

Soooooooo many assumptions in this. One of the many tactics you lot employ. Divert with statements about what the other person thinks & feels so they are unable to engage with a level head but are instead continually fact-checking & allowing themselves to get bogged down & distracted. It's actually pretty boring, you need to come up with some more entertaining discourse. Enjoy the rest of your day. I'll return to my world of empathy, curiosity, flexibility, self-reflection & 'feelings', & you get back to whatever it is you do that clearly isn't that.

#operationletthemspeak

I'm old, and have known, lived with, worked with, many people with mental conditions. I prefer the ones who try to get their health sorted out, if they can.

I know that mammals, including humans, cannot change sex.

I find men who use excuses, health-related or otherwise, for weird sexual behavior, repellent.

I will work and mix with people who identify as trans if I have to.

I feel strongly that single-sex spaces should exist for those who need them, and that 'gender' does not trump sex.

Gender isn’t the accepted mindset in many communities -like here - for the main - but if you are living in a community with strong restrictive and in my opinion plain wrong ideas on gender ( right wing American communities as a strong example) then I can quite understand why identifying as none binary makes perfect sense

what I am trying to say though is that it is less healthy way to live than chucking gender out the window

We know what you feel because you keep talking about feelings. What we want you to engage with is ideas and with critical thinking techniques. Acknowledge, for example, that conceptual paradigms affect the way we view ourselves. Try to observe yourself outside of your trans/non binary identity, maybe. An identity is not something that is fixed. It changes, develop and grows with time and experience. Perspectives do not stay the same for time eternal.

Condescending much? I don't have the answers because I haven't had the opportunity to discuss it with people who want an outcome that is as humane as possible, without fear of attack, not because I'm not capable of understanding the nuance. Prison systems, for example, are inherently flawed. We are starting at the wrong end. Have you noticed how many trans-exclusionary feminist arguments are based around the assertion that everything has to be binding, binary & fixed? Few systems are like that in actuality.