Is anyone on here trans-inclusive?

[plinkyplonk123]

Hi everyone, this is just a quick post to ask if anybody else on here is trans inclusive? I know I’m definitely in the minority here but I just wanted to see.

absolutely @FlirtsWithRhinos

One of the most outrageous demands of gender idoelogy is that there should be no word for adult human females - we have woman but TRA's want to deny this to us. They claim "women = adult human female" is some kind of bigoted hate crime. Meanwhile 51% of the human poopulation must be denied a group noun (that would include me, Missy Elliott, Joan of Arc & the Queen) in the pursuit by "be kinders" of gender ideology.

They are even now claiming the word "female" must include men who think themselves female.

Female pigs - sow
Female horses - mare
Female chicken - hen
Female humans - hatecrime against trans identified people

NO!! Not agreed.

This is entirely unreasonable & if you can't see that you need to realise you are lost inside a cult.

I definitely am by that definition.

I still believe that biological sex matters and cannot be changed. I believe that people are entitled to single sex spaces being single sex.

Poor Mr Jenner took a stunning, brave, celebrated and sacred journey from Bruce to Caitlyn, pausing only to admire himself in his step-daughter's knickers, pick up a few women-only awards, and pop into the ladies for many a ladylike slash.

Please don’t quote me again. Thank you.

Why should I present an argument? Who is asking for that? What are you wanting me to argue about? I accept & respect everybody's right to present as they please, provided that doesn't harm others. The debate should be around when that might happen, not the presentation of those people. In my opinion. I'm sorry that feeling upset & hurt by the outcomes of this horrible situation isn't argumentative. I'm sorry we are all drifting further & further apart & further away from compromise & acceptance of difference.

I don't understand how anyone can think defining men and woman by their minds rather than their bodies isn't reductive and sexist.

Our bodies are different. I think it's reasonable to recognise that.

I also get that some people don't think those physical differences are significant.

But what I do not understand is why on earth those people have decided to split people up by personality/mind instead, and reuse the old words for the bodies to label that? If the real differences of bodies aren't going to be important why the need to invent new ones at all? Why not just all be people?

where are people being excluded from due to their gender identity?

Do you agree people can be excluded from single sex spaces because they are the opposite sex?

Do you understand some women will self exclude if only mixed sex spaces are available to them? Whereas we can all access sexed spaces according to our lifelong immutable sex that every single person has?

I don't know how else to reply? Is there another way?

Are you saying biology is more important than psychology?

They aren't different. Your brain is a part of your body, but your brain is not your sex, which as with any living thing is defined with reference to reproduction. When I refer to a male or female holly bush, or say that a snail is a hermaphrodite, I am not making a value judgement.

I'm part of a discussion that involves me at every level because you disagree with how I view myself.

We are making the assumption that you are female because that is what you have told us. Unless they know you personally, nobody on this board actually knows your sex. We are discussing this in the context of sex and gender, because it's rather the point of the board.

We are referring to you to the extent that we are trying to understand your arguments. I don't care how you view yourself. I do care if your understanding of 'woman' is generalised to policy and legislation, because it seems to be be based in your dysphoria, and that is not a good way to define concepts.

really interesting thread - thanks for starting the discussion @ForProudPinkPombear

my friends were born with very feminine bodies and faces but also with penises. These are gentle people who didn’t ask for this.
As an example an ‘imposter’ in the trans community would be men using it for sexual gratification, not for genuine reasons.

If someone said that to be trans-inclusive then we needed to stop using seatbelts and we needed to stop our daughters wearing seatbelts, how many of us would take the risk?

If transwomen said that wearing seatbelts made them feel sad and excluded, how man of us would stop our daughters from wearing seatbelts?

What if they said it was silly to care about seatbelts because more people die from cancer and heart attacks than in car crashes? And seatbelts don't save your life in every crash anyway, so it's just pointless to care about seatbelts and only silly women worry about such things?

Neither wearing seatbelts or having single sex spaces are 100% effective, but they are the best solution we have.

A transwoman is just as likely as any other man to be a rapist. Over 60% of transwomen in prison have convictions for rape or sexual assault (compared to just 3% of women).

If you care enough about safety to wear a seatbelt, then it makes sense to care enough to want single sex spaces.

If the real differences of bodies aren't going to be important why the need to invent new ones at all? Why not just all be people?

Exactly!! If sex isn't important what is it that is being defined?

I too am 'cool for cats' when it comes to mixed-sex fitness classes (the name of the class you use there is a big clue as to why, so I don't quite get your point/argument, but OK let's go with it).
I would not be so cool for cats if a class advertised as women-only let in a TIM.

Please don’t use the quote button to quote my posts and reply to me. I’m no longer participating in any meaningful way in this thread.

please don’t reply to me at all.

thank you

Stop quoting her.
Stop @-ing her.
Stop replying to her posts.
She does not want to interact with you.

So are you saying that men who have masculine faces but identify as trans are not trans?

Are you saying biology is more important than psychology?

Dunno about anyone else but yes, I am saying that biology is much more important than psychology. Psychology wont get you pregnant: biology will. Psychology wont give you urinary incontinence: biology will.

I'm sorry you have dysphoria but if you muck around with your biology then it's at your own peril.

And if you make people use the wrong language to talk about your biology, if you make them say he instead of she or vice versa, or man instead of woman, then that puts you at risk. And it puts everyone with female biology at risk whenever they try to talk about anything related to their or anyone else's body using wrong-sex language, whether they recognise that they are women or not.

I’m not trans inclusive in that I don’t believe trans people should force themselves into male and female only spaces.

im currently going through a secondary school formal complaint as a transgendered teacher is forcing vulnerable and impressionable children into calling them MX and has come out and stated they are non binary and that everyone should identify as not having a biological sex , teacher and the school are punishing children if they wrongly call the teacher by their preferred pronouns.

Brigett Phillipson has clearly stated that a teacher can request to be called their preferred pronouns however children, parents and colleagues do NOT have too and that children should NOT be punished in doing so, I believe this is forcing gender ideology onto children and therefore makes it illegal.

Schools have recently been instructed not to teach about "gender identity" as a factual concept under new government guidance for relationships, sex, and health education (RSHE), so I am unsure why this school is going against the policies.

Um, she said to stop quoting her, and I asked how else to reply, if she said to stop replying I would have (and have now she has said that). I've tried to be understanding & answer the questions she was asking me, even though I didn't really understand them. I was accused of bullying because i was asked a question that unsettled me. Others have pointed out that she misunderstood where I was coming from & misread the situation. Why are you defending her & not me? I'm not asking intrusive questions & demanding answers.

Biology is very hard and real and externally observable

biology also impacts psychology

you can only be a transawoman if your biology is male

I refuse to accept a “female” gender identity because my biology is female and the harm I have suffered as a result makes me reject that

no I don’t see myself as transgender- you have have gender dysmorphia without being transgender

I am not "defending" her. I am making it clear what she wants you to do.

Just draw a line under it and move on FGS.

I don't do any of these things. I use female pronouns & I'm not mucking about with my biology. Where are you getting all this from? Is 15th Jan "belittle a person with gender dysphoria" day & I missed it?

You have come on to a board which you knew beforehand was a gathering place for people who have very particular concerns with trans ideology....what else did you expect? Nobody is forcing anything on you; in fact they are engaging with your posts even when they run contrary to most of what people know to be true, believe, or find acceptable.

I did what she wanted me to do. And you are defending her, or, rather, you're using someone's position to advance your own, at the expense of someone who hasn't done anything wrong. Draw a line under what? The only person here with a problem is you.