Is anyone on here trans-inclusive?

[plinkyplonk123]

Hi everyone, this is just a quick post to ask if anybody else on here is trans inclusive? I know I’m definitely in the minority here but I just wanted to see.

I cannot accept the premise that “washing up is a woman’s task and therefore if you do the washing up you are a woman” therefore I cannot crept the premise that “dresses are a woman’s clothing and therefore if you wear a dress you are a woman”. Humans are mammals and there are two types, each with a distinct part to play reproductively speaking. It doesn’t matter whether it functions, it doesn’t matter whether you ever use it, but you are one type or the other.

Society (patriarchy) has made it necessary for the smaller, lighter and physically more at risk of those sexes to have certain protections in law. Adhere to those protections and you can wear what you like, dress how you like, call yourself the name of your choosing. This is rapidly turning into wording I first read on Twitter in 2019……!

How can I not be defined by my physical form when that’s what made it possible for him to rape, choke, strangle and otherwise sexually and physically abuse and assault me and meant I couldn’t overpower him? Seriously can someone please explain this to me because I genuinely don’t understand it.

What has that got to do with asking people not to call me female?

In your opinion. Not in mine. Dictating the reality of others. 🙄

I would say I am, but we do need some spaces and services separated on bio sex. Changing rooms would be a good example. Generally though for everywhere else I don have a problem with trans women joining female organisations. For example, I am not sure why the WI would exclude trans-women.

How can you live your life as a male if you are not a male, but a female?

What you are talking about is adopting mannerisms and poses and clothing/hair styles associated with masculinity.

I literally quoted you in my reply.

you said “provided it doesn’t cause harm to others”.

it causes me harm to have a male bodied person in a women’s single sex space.

why do the rights of that man trump mine

@ForProudPinkPombear becaus the quote didn’t work

What do trans women have in common with other women that makes all those people women and not men?

Which factors in the history of women lead to the creation of women-only spaces and protections?

What is the connection between your first answer and your second?

Because they are male. A women's organisation is a female space by definition. A male presence changes the dynamic, even if only subtlely.

People can live how they want, and be who/what they want, no problem. But EVERYONE needs to be kept safe.

I know there's so much debate about who can and can't use women's bathrooms or changing facilities etc - my university solved that by having a corridor with toilets leading off it, and each individual room had a toilet, sink and hand dryer. Anyone could use them, nobody was at risk of being in there with anyone else. Similar can work perfectly well with changing rooms in shops etc.

The problem is, we're being asked to accept change, without everything changing to accommodate it. Transpeople exist, cool. Obviously they always have, but there is more openness now. As there should be. But the infrastructure hasn't been changed to keep up with the times.

Every single person should be allowed to get changed, use the bathroom, and whatever else, and feel safe while doing so. Debates like this end up turning people against each other, and against groups, while in fact it's businesses and the government who are causing issues by not making proper provision for all groups of people.

An increase of tolerance and acceptance and rights for the trans community must come, but should not come at the cost of women's safety. But it doesn't have to. The right change is possible - if the people who have the power can be arsed to do it.

Quite easily you go about your day as do you and I

This

Yes I am 100% a trans ally. You don’t see it here though on mumsnet

We need @keeptoiletssafe because that sort of toilet design is dangerous.

I tend to assume that the older you get, the more likely it is that you will have to live with some kind of painful reality, and as I assume that most of the regular posters on this board have a few years under their belt, I assume most of them have something in their lives that is difficult.

If it did you wouldn't think like you do.

I'm not sure what you mean by this - that I don't have dysphoria? Whether or not I have dysphoria does not change the material impact of sex.

If an organisation is single sex, it can't, by definition include, the other sex.

See the WI threads for more information on this.

what makes you 100% a trans ally?

But if you are female and people can perceive that then it is unrealistic to expect people not to notice and say so. And it would be incredibly domineering to expect everyone to use pronouns etc that are contrary to their instinct., just because it hurts your feelings. Why would it hurt your feelings to be correctly sexed, anyway?

What your most intimate friends and family call you, or how they refer to you is their business.

I'm a trans ally. Men can dress as they like and I won't mock them and absolutely support their right to be treated as well as the next person. I won't call them a woman though, because they aren't.

It’s almost as though there is a formula, isn’t there? I’ve read genre fiction that is less predictable.

Hi. This is a busy thread with lots of engagement so I am hoping that someone can help me?

How does a man become a woman, at what point does this happen, what needs to happen? No one will tell me.

Thank you.

As a trans ally are you ok with male rapists who identify as women being put in womens Prisons?

What about women who identify as men being placed on male mental health wards despite the risk to them of rape and assault?

What you are doing is living as a female who presents in a 'masculine' way. You cannot live as a male if you are not male.

I disagree. Here's an example. My 93 year old mother is housebound and very frail. She relies on carers to help her with dressing and washing. It is very intimate and potentially demeaning, but the carers are great and Mum has got used to it.

On a couple of occasions when there were no female carers available a young man has been sent. She has reluctantly had to accept some help from him but is not happy about it at all. I'm sure he is a perfectly decent young man and obviously he will be DBS checked and trained, but it should be her right to specify female-only care, on grounds of privacy and decency, as well as the increased risk of assault (which is unarguable). We have been able to voice our preference for female-only care and it has been acknowledged without anybody telling us we are nasty bigots.

If the young man had turned up in female attire and introduced himself as Louise, we would have been placed in a much less staightforward position. This is not entirely theoretical as there have been cases of women asking for a female HCP to carry out an intimate procedure and a trans-identified male HCP being assigned. Horrible position for the women to be placed in to have to challenge this.

The people who are being murdered & oppressed & made to feel that their already difficult existence is an affront to the world should be the angry ones, but heaven forfend that anyone expresses their anger

You mean female people, yes?

The ones murdered by the men close to them in the UK at the rate of 2 or 3 a week?

The ones missing from the global population to the tune of around 150 million due to sex selective abortion and childhood neglect?

The ones who have been at times and in other places still are legally defined as property, legally excluded from work.or education?

The ones ststematically raped as an act of war?

Those are the people you mean, right?