Is anyone on here trans-inclusive?

[plinkyplonk123]

Hi everyone, this is just a quick post to ask if anybody else on here is trans inclusive? I know I’m definitely in the minority here but I just wanted to see.

You know nothing about me and the way I relate to other people. All you know is that i don't accept the premise of your personal belief system in relation to the concept of a 'trans identity'.

We are all 'non binary' - in that nobody conforms to every single gender stereotype and we are all a mix of characteristics, preferences, talents and skills. And we are all either male or female. That is the reality of life in a body on planet Earth

This is a respectful reply. I honestly don't have the answers. People do need to be safe.

Definitely not in the UK or Europe.

In order for me to be safe, I need a single sex space.

why can’t we have a fourth space that is for either sex and all genders and none? (Not a third that’s for the disabled)

It caused me enough discomfort that I transitioned, but I still think that facing the reality of my sex (female, as I am a transman) is necessary in many regards.

you best tell India Willoughby, Beth Upton and Colin/Katy whatshisface this - they will be shocked & furious to hear your "transphobia"

I do know something about you, I know that in this instance you won't let your empathy override your personal beliefs. And that's ok, I know I do that sometimes. It doesn't make you worse or better than me. We are butting heads & it's pointless.

I don’t demonise trans people. I literally have friends who are trans. But, I know that they are still genetically male, and not and never will be female. I treat them with respect, dignity and enjoy their company, I like them very much as individuals. They refer to themselves as trans, or trans women, not women.

However, like many people, I object to the very loudly vocal transvestites that present like drag queens and claim to be lesbians, demand to be accommodated in single sex female only spaces despite them being unmistakably male. There is an undeniably toxic misogynist group that are actually autogynophiles/incels who are forcing this bullshit on everyone because it’s a power trip and a kink. These are the ones that threaten natal women when questioned or asked to leave female spaces, and can be found waving signs promoting violence and harm to TERFS. They can fuck off.

I have absolutely no problem with anyone wearing whatever they like, be it a frilly frock, a full face of make up, heels and big hair, or a shaved head, combat pants and Dr Martens. Go ahead dude, paint your nails and grow your hair, that’s cool, it doesn’t mean you’re a woman, and I’ll happily use they/them but not she/her pronouns.

Which people, and safe from what?

To quote a particular favourite of mine:
Life is pain, highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

There are many things in life that cause us pain. Pretending we can ignore those things isn't always practical or safe.

For example, change the sex marker on a trans person's NHS record to reflect their preferred gender and they miss out on potentially life-saving screenings for cervical or prostate cancer.

Most of the time the fact that you're female isn't relevant to your day to day life. But when it does matter, it really matters.

I hope you find the happiness and acceptance you need.

They do

In the sandie Peggie tribunal a qualified male doctor stated under oath that he was a biological woman.

What has empathy got to do with laws around single sex provision ?

I have EVERY sympathy for trans identifying individuals.

But the SC has clarified that sex means sex in terms of single sex spaces.

so what has empathy got to do with it?

No one is saying sexist people are not people!

We are just saying they are sexist.

I hope over time they come to be less sexist and I very much hope they damage neither themselves nor anyone else, physically or emotionally, in the meantime.

And because accommodating trans identifying males in female spaces and in female language is damaging to women, I cannot condone it no matter how nice individual trans people may be.

I'm doing The Bad Thing of posting without having read the whole thread -
do I have to read the whole thread?
Let me guess:

• the OP didn't reappear, but somebody else with a different username started posting pretty much the same things
• posters said they were 100% trans-inclusive of transmen in women's spaces, but not of transwomen, i.e. who ID as women, in women's spaces.
• the replacement OP brought up DSDs and intersex, in such a way as to reveal that they don't really know very much about the subject.
• we were told to educate ourselves
• posters said they believe that trans people should have the same rights as everyone else
• we were told this is a hate-filled echo-chamber which the poster avoids...except to post that it is a hate-filled echo-chamber

How am I doing with the guessing?😏

I’d say every supposedly GC/terf poster on this board is ‘trans-inclusive’ then - we’re all happy for them to live their lives, work, buy homes, have access to safe and properly researched science-based medical care. We’re happy for them to sleep with whoever they want in consensual honest relationships, to wear what they want etc.

We just want them to observe the law and respect the sex-based rights of women if they are trans women by using and petitioning for gender-neutral facilities, sports categories etc. We welcome trans men into our spaces, as they are women, no matter how they present and identify.

I have no interest in the ‘how can I tell’ repost to the last point, should it be incoming, because it SHOULD be self-policing with biological males who identify as women respecting our boundaries. We should be able to rely on - as we have done for several decades - the assumption that any masculine looking persons in our spaces were butch lesbians or, now, trans men. The fact that we can’t is not our fault - it is the fault of male persons/trans women transgressing our boundaries - and those defined by the law, affirmed by the SC ruling.

Do you actually mean - she doesn't let her empathy for males override her empathy for females?

So many seem to think men's feelings trump everything.

I have a question for the trans inclusive posters who think transwomen are women.

Would you think it was OK for you, or your female relatives, to have to share a prison cell with a male rapist?

Let's say the rapist has a gender recognition certificate stating he is female and he still has his penis.

If not please explain why that transwomen is not a woman and shouldn't be treated as a woman.

The fact I'm AFAB is actually very relevant to every moment of my life. I choose to not be defined by my physical form. I choose to let others define themselves however they want, provided it doesn't cause harm to others. I choose not to purposefully turn away from empathy to make a point that doesn't need making. What are you gaining? There is only loss here.

Emapthy is about understanding and feeling someone's suffering or distress. Fellow feeling. That is not the same as capitulation to an accompanying belief system for fear of offending or upsetting someone.

We can feel empathy for all sorts of people and all sorts of suffering.......but we don't extend automatic empathy purely on the basis of a tribal allegiance or adherence to a particular ideology or belief system.

I feel absolutely no empathy for someone who tries to force others into accepting their particular moral code, though I can often sense that this demand often comes froma place of vulnerability or damage.

Compassion, as well as responsibility, sometimes involves holding a firm line and telling the truth, or confronting someone with something they do not want to hear.

As i say...life is not a 'safe space'. You say you are 48 years old?

You are psychic! How could you possibly know this??!

It causes me harm to have a man who identifies as a woman in a single sex space with me.

so do I get the right to have a space free from men or do the wishes of the men override my wishes as a woman?

Your opinion is a sexist one and should have no credibility in lawmaking.

If this is the latest change in the ever shifting sands of transactivist ideology then that's great. All those previous organisations promoting sex change - both for children and adults (Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence, Stonewall and countless others) - can back off women and children if they're now saying nobody changes sex. Dizzying how often their messages change!

They can stop demanding that children are sterilised and physically harmed by brutal experimental surgery. They can stop claiming that the words woman, mother, breast feeding etc are bigoted and exclusive. They can stop demanding that men must be in women's changing rooms, showers, sports, hospital wards etc in the name of changing sex. As nobody's apparently changing sex now (make it make sense).

The nebulous, undefined concept of "gender" won't have any impact on women as if nobody's changing sex, then the sex based rights of women to privacy and safety and the rights of children to be safeguarded from the age inappropriate adult concept of "changing sex" no longer applies.

wow thats amazing - how did you know?

We've also been told there is evidence we all have souls which was super exciting. But sadly the evidence hasn't been shared with us - we are all astonishement & so very disappointed.

Yea I do. Yes a female born will always be biologically female , but can have surgeries and treatment to make them present as a male ans live their lives as a male without ever having a negative impact on myself or others