Is anyone on here trans-inclusive?

[plinkyplonk123]

Hi everyone, this is just a quick post to ask if anybody else on here is trans inclusive? I know I’m definitely in the minority here but I just wanted to see.

I think it all became bullshit when we stopped being able to differentiate between transvestites and transexuals. They're all under the same transgender umbrella term now, and it's not the bloody same!
I frequented many gay and fetish bars and clubs in the 90s and beyond and I've also worked in mental health, and been close to many people who are on the fringes of society iykwim.

I actually think that way too many people are just naive.
I feel sad for a lot of transexuals who I don't necessarily believe that they have changed sex, but I don't think they deserve to be lumped in with so many transvestite fetishist chancers, and I really feel sad for the gay youth and autistic kids being sold a lie, but also having to pretend they believe something they don't, or they get alienated from the gay community.
It's so fucked up.

Findings suggest that transgender people overall may not face a higher risk of being murdered than do cisgender people but that young transgender women of color almost certainly face a higher chance of being murdered"

May I point out that young men of colour are statistically more likely to be murdered than other groups. That trans-identified males of colour often face an intersection of prejudice (racism, homophobia, often poverty) and may be likely to face social exclusion and fall into sexual exploitation as a result (often referred to as sex work). And that these factors are strong contributors to the chance of anyone being murdered. Have they been controlled for in the study you cite?

98% to 99% of sex offenders are of the male sex. So this misogynistic 'women are sexual offenders too' is horrific misogynistic gaslighting, victim-blaming, and misogyny.

I didn't say that young trans people say that trans people are more likely to be murdered. I also didn't say that trans people are more likely to be murdered. But, for example, trans women of colour in the US are likely to be at higher risk of murder. Data has inherent limitations that some are trying to correct & evolve; the family of a victim, for example, may not identify them as trans. When some gender critical people feel safe to express their full opinions, and as a female-presenting feminist, around me they often feel able to do so, prejudice is rife.

Intersex are either MALE or FEMALE. They are not a third sex or an 'in between' sex. You're the flat earther! And people with intersex conditions (now known as people with DSDs) have asked repeatedly that you stop weaponising them in this.

PS 'gender' is a man-made misogynistic social construct. Only sex is real and affects people's lives.

These are your opinions, don't let your self-importance blind you to that

Have I said trans people are likely to be murdered?

I thought you had, but if you now agree, that happily, this is very unlikely, great!

Is this the core of your argument?

No, the core of my argument is that the concept of gender identity is sexist and that it shouldn't be imposed on society. For comparison, I said that I also think many religions are sexist. I want to live in a tolerant society, but I also want the freedom to express my opinion when I come across sexism, and to protect the sex based rights that I need.

You posted a screed with no evidence that they were killed specifically because they are transgender.

All I could think OP when I was reading your original post was abort, abort, abort. I don’t think the majority of people of mumsnet think like you.

wow this thread is moving so fast I seem to have missed @ForProudPinkPombear soul existance evidence.

I was. Not anymore.

The people who are being murdered & oppressed & made to feel that their already difficult existence is an affront to the world should be the angry ones, but heaven forfend that anyone expresses their anger.

Your post on this thread on page 14.

Transmen are female, and thus unlikely to offend in the way male transwomen do. All feminists I've known including transmen in their female advocacy.

As ever, those banging on about "trans incision" can't accept it's not about gender, it's about sex. We can't include transwomen in a definition of women because we are talking about female single sex facilities and provisions. No male can join something for women without instantly making it mixed sex.

You may personally find your sex an inconvenience, but that doesn't stop it existing.

What I meant was they are not transsexuals who have believed they were female since toddler hood and they do not have gender dysphoria. They are likely autogynephiliacs or simply just choosing to identify as trans in order to abuse women. Or possibly they are transsexuals and also abusive men 🤷‍♀️. Ime trans women who are truly tormented by gender dysphoria get a whole lot more surgery than that

They are not opinions, they are fact. And if you could back yourself, you'd post actual data and evidence. There is a reason Trans Ideologists were so desperate for 'no debate'. When their 'arguments' are examined, they are like a house of cards built on quick sand.

I didn't say it. Look at the manipulative nature of your first sentence. Why do you feel the need to do that? If you got something wrong, just say that. No need to twist my words. "but you now agree.." how have you gone from admitting you misrepresented words to saying I'd changed my mind? And you wonder why people don't want to engage with these kind of mind games

I am not. This ridiculous cult gender ideology is going too far now. I think women who support it are complicit In making an actual female definition, irrelevant

I have no answer for the legal questions that arise & rightfully arouse emotion.

"Find my sex an inconvenience"? Oh, you lucky, lucky person. This attitude & insistence that I am female is a source of pain to me that you would never, could never understand.

Please do not project your sexist assumptions on to other people.

I personally consider the people who believe in the sexist idea of gender identity to be the equivalent of racists.

To me it’s quite simple. Biological reproduction of the human race requires a person with xx chromosomes and a person with xy chromosomes. Let’s call these two different types of people women and men.
Some men, for whatever reason(s) doesn’t want to be in a group with the other men. They think they belong with the women. So let’s give them the name trans women and vice versa.
Woman and man as label mean something. Trans women and trans men means something. All groups deserve to live their life without fear or discrimination. Each group has different wants, needs, problems etc. For most day to day activities it doesn’t matter what group you belong to but occasionally you may have to alter your behaviour and put someone else’s needs before your wants when something is linked to biology. A woman may not enter a man’s toilet. A man can not enter a woman’s toilet. As you can’t be a trans man without actually being a woman you should go in the women’s. As you can’t be a trans woman without being a man you should go in the men’s.
If you can’t define sex you can’t define sex discrimination.
Everyone should just respect one another and get on with their own life.

I am.
Unfortunately I end up seeing most of my comments deleted as my supportive comments or debates with people being transphobic get reported instantly.
Its sad really.

I have a trans son (trans male, so not the type that gets the most hate at least) and it boils my piss when I see so many hateful comments.

But when I pointed out to Mumsnet the many occasions they were letting what is essentially hate speech run rampant, I got banned.
Speaks volumes, doesn’t it?

Actually, I'm confused about what you think - do you agree that trans people are very rarely murdered in the UK? It was odd to bring up murder in the first place, given the statistics. Were you just not aware?

Have you had a chance to consider what I said about the sexist nature of categorising people by gender identity?

So you do care about statistics then?

Trans identifying men who are sex workers or drug affected in America are at higher risk of being murdered than women, but at a rate not far off other black men similar affected. And not clearly indicated if they were murdered because they were trans or for other reasons. In fact, from memory, one of these murders in the US was murdered by their TIM partner.

Overall, in the world, in Europe and in the UK, this rarely happens.

Again, you said trans people are being murdered. This is true. But only in the sense of saying “humans are being murdered”. As a statement meant to indicate higher levels of oppression, it fails.

But, for example, trans women of colour in the US are likely to be at higher risk of murder

They are at lower risk of murder than black men. Trans-identifying black men are proportionally less likely to be murdered than other black men in the USA. By a long margin, young black men are the population most likely to be murdered, even more so than those who identify as transwomen.

The cohort of trans people mostly likely to be murdered are those involved in prostitution. But that's a very high risk life for everyone involved in it, not just transwomen.

Yes! I have had some lovely trans friends in university and have met lots of lovely trans people during my life time. The vast majority have been kind and friendly. I think people who demonise the trans community should read more about the science and also talk to more people who are different than them.

Unfortunately stats show a woman is most likely to be attacked by your ordinary run of the mill cis man and you are also more likely to be attacked by a man that you know. Transpeople are four times more likely to be victims of a violent crime, including rape and sexual assault, statistically they are much more likely to be the victims than the perpetrators of a assault. I have seen people post on here cases where a transperson committed a violent/sexual crime in a manner that suggests that they think that because one individual committed a crime that it proves the entire community are violent deviants. Imagine if we were to do the same and say that because a small number of women are sexual offenders that all women are sexual offenders - it does not make sense.

I feel instead of fearing or demonising a small minority (circa 0.5% of the population) that we should take time to talk to people who are different to us and learn about our differences, in doing so we may find that we all actually have a huge amount in common.