Is anyone on here trans-inclusive?

[plinkyplonk123]

Hi everyone, this is just a quick post to ask if anybody else on here is trans inclusive? I know I’m definitely in the minority here but I just wanted to see.

"Transgender people experience more discrimination and violence than cisgender lesbian, gay, or bisexual people: a multilevel analysis across 30 European countries
Jacob Evje, Sam Fluit &Tilmann von Soest"

You first brought up murder. You said originally trans people are being murdered. It was pointed out to you that this isn’t the case, based on recorded numbers, and it’s not clear from those cases that they are murdered for being trans.

You later asked this question:

Are you saying trans people are safer from harm than non-trans people?

This is a question that only has three answers - yes, no, the same - that can only be confirmed with statistics.

Young people can claim they think trans people are being murdered for being trans, they can also claim things about suicide, they can claim a lot of things based on their perception of experience but that doesn’t mean it’s true and it doesn’t mean we should allow their false claims of experience to trump reality, particularly when such claims are a dangerous narrative that are provably false with statistics that you either want or don’t want, depending on how muddled up you are.

HTH.

I have no problem with trans people, I have a relative who is part of that community. I'm happy to call people whatever they want to be called, but I don't believe they can actually change sex. The biology will always show either XX or XY chromosomes.

I am never going to be 'comfortable' pretending that a man is actually a woman.

Not only is that against basic scientific facts, it's harmful to women's safeguarding.

These things are more important than affirming a man's metaphysical belief that he is somehow a woman despite being obviously biologically male.

Do you understand my position?

And I can engage with a nuanced answer like that! Agreed, the landscape is problematic & throws up issues that should not be casually dealt with.

Where has anyone labelled all trans people as sex offenders??!

I did a study of gender differentiation, including intersex conditions. It is more complex than you think. You remind me of a flat earther!

"Data Sources Hinder Our Understanding of Transgender Murders
Rebecca L Stotzer 1,✉
Author information
Article notes
Copyright and License information
PMCID: PMC5551619 PMID: 28787204
See "Homicide Rates of Transgender Individuals in the United States: 2010–2014" on page 1441.
Transgender people face frequent experiences of discrimination, violence, social and economic marginalization, and abuse across the lifespan. International efforts to track the murder of transgender people suggest that a transgender person is murdered at least once every three days.1 However, in the United States there is no formal data collection effort that can be used to describe the nature, frequency, or extent of transgender homicides.

In an effort to address this gap, Dinno (p. 1441) used nongovernmental organization (NGO) data on the murder of transgender people and various estimates of the transgender population in the United States as well as federal data on cisgender people to create a range of estimates of the transgender homicide rate compared with the cisgender homicide rate from 2010 to 2014. Findings suggest that transgender people overall may not face a higher risk of being murdered than do cisgender people but that young transgender women of color almost certainly face a higher chance of being murdered"

That’s got to be the most ironic statement I’ve ever read on here 🤣🤣

I'm getting a lot of replies that are arguing with points I haven't made, or opinions that I don't have.

i don’t think people with penis’s should enter female only spaces

The European Court of Human Rights and the UK Courts have repeatedly found that rights cannot depend on the kind of treatment that would include removal of penis.

These men aren’t trans.

They are, though. The only criterion for being trans is a self-declaration as such. Literally, "I'm trans because I say I am."

Every single person with a DSD is one sex or the other.

I'd be careful who I'm calling a flat earther if I were you.

a biology denier calling a sex realist a flat earther?! LOL.

do you take issue with trans identified men erradicating womens single sex spaces, when so many women want & need single sex spaces (even if some women say they dont want/need these spaces themselves)?

Or do you think only bigots would object to men in womens spaces & bigots shouldnt have rights to singel sex spaces?

Or possibly do you think you can consent to men in womens spaces obo all women?

Of course it is possible to empathise with the distress of people whose distorted ideas around sex lead them to conclude they are somehow mentally "wrong" for their body.

And it is absolutely possible to agree that society as a whole has ridiculous ideas about how men and women think, or what we should enjoy, or how we should want to dress because of our sex, and that people who step outside those stereotypes get a totally unreasonable hard time. I mean, that's kind of axoimic for Feminism, right?

None of this requires compromising on women's rights.

But what is not possible is to take the above empathy and understanding and turn it into accommodating trans identifying people as being actually or in any way more equivalent to the opposite sex than anyone else of their actual sex without severely impacting not just women's rights but the entire understanding and recognition of the female half of the species as a form of human existence that is distinct, complete and meaningful in its own right.

Not in the practical provision of women's spaces and supports, nor the conceptual existence of legal protections and rights that address the specific needs and risks that come with being female, nor in the cultural spaces and language that express the fact of our existence and our history within humanity.

And I for one am heartily sick of manipulative attempts to exploit the first two laudable reactions to trans identifying people in order to deliver the latter inexcusable objective.

What are you on about? Seriously? Is this the core of your argument? Not that I know what the argument is, but, this is very far from it. Have I said trans people are likely to be murdered?

@Dewberrywotsit Women are not safe from sex offenders. Sex offenders can also be female. Being trans does not make someone a sex offender. This is all hateful bullshit. Go out and start petitioning against sexual offences, hate crimes against women by all means, but don't label all trans people as sex offenders. It is illogical and speaks to me of ignorance. For the record - I work in criminal justice and can tell you categorically that there are female as well as male sex offenders. So get a grip, do something useful and stop persecuting people that you don't understand.

Women are not safe from sex offenders.
True

Sex offenders can also be female.
True

Being trans does not make someone a sex offender.
True

This is all hateful bullshit.
Not true, it's a discussion. On a discussion thread

Go out and start petitioning against sexual offences, hate crimes against women by all means,
Some of us do

but don't label all trans people as sex offenders.
No one has done that on here

It is illogical and speaks to me of ignorance.
It would be if it had happened

For the record - I work in criminal justice and can tell you categorically that there are female as well as male sex offenders.
Okay, fair enough

So get a grip, do something useful and stop persecuting people that you don't understand.
Many of us have got a grip, realised the dangers to women's and girl's rights, done and are doing many useful things about that.
There is no "persecution" - do you even understand what that means?
Opposition and challenge is not persecution.

gender professors love to use intersex people as a gotcha. Despite people with intersex conditions knowing their sex and hating being dragged into this discussion.

I would also add that in RL my workplace is really inclusive & i have a few colleagues who are trans men & transwomen & they seem completely sensible about spaces etc. We have mixed sex cubicle toilets off corridors, and parental leave is the same whether you are male or female. There's never any chat about transwomen accessing women only spaces, its up to you if you state your pronouns and if you do they will be respected.

Please evidence where people have said ALL trans people are sex offenders or bore off.

The majority of sex offenders are men. Women make up a small minority of sex offenders. Trans women are men and are included in this, they aren’t a separate special entity. I also work in criminal justice and have met trans women who are sex offenders.

Women also deserve spaces away from men (including trans women who are men as you seem to be struggling with this) for privacy and dignity reasons, not just attacks. The majority of men in my life wouldn’t harm anyone (as sure as I can be on that), I don’t want to get changed in front of them. Wouldn’t change if they popped on a dress and stayed the magical words that makes people’s brains fall out.

Oh here we go again, bring people with a DSD into the equation to try to prove that a man can become a woman.

Gave me my first laugh of the day.

Before calling other people flat earthers, perhaps you could answer the following:

Why do you think we bother to define sex in humans, snails, plants, cats etc? What is it that we are defining?

Do you think people with differences of sexual development are a different sex?

Do you think that people who identify as trans have DSDs?

If you can't define sex, what does 'trans' mean?

There is no actual data that backs this up. On the contrary. Evidence shows that trans are the safest, most powerful, most privileged and most sacred caste out. It took gay people decades, literally decades to a century to get human rights. In under one generation, trans people managed to get the definition of women erased, to get government, education, health and NGOs on their side, to the extent that feminists that fought for sex-based rights were sacked and in some cases, charged with offences. That, is patriarchy on steroids. The gay community never had that power. That trans people are not privileged is a joke when evidence, data and reality is examined.