Is anyone on here trans-inclusive?

[plinkyplonk123]

Hi everyone, this is just a quick post to ask if anybody else on here is trans inclusive? I know I’m definitely in the minority here but I just wanted to see.

Do you not think the concept of a society organised around gender is incredibly sexist?

I have a visceral objection to being referred to as a woman if 'woman' refers to gender identity.

Gender is social expectations of how a man or woman should behave - it's women should't have an education, women who stand up for their rights are 'Karens', women shouldn't wear flat shoes.

My sex has consequences - I need the words 'woman' and 'female' to protect my rights. For me the most fundamental sex based right is the right to control my fertility. I also need clear language to ensure that I don't die if I need medical treatment.

I accept that people understand their identity in different ways. I no more wish to control how somebody understands their own identity than I wish to stand outside the local church shouting that God doesn't exist. I want to live in a society that tolerates different beliefs, but a society organised around gender is neither inclusive nor tolerant.

If somebody is gender non-conforming, why do you think they still need a gendered label to be included?

People can express themselves and exist without anyone having to pretend they are actually the opposite sex or that that men should have access to women's single sex spaces.

What's so controversial about that?

Why does my trauma not matter to you?

Well... thanks for your convincing argument...

fundamental right to self-expression & acknowledgement that trans people exist

Trans people already have those rights.

Does this mean including men in women's spaces though? I think most people are sympathetic to trans having the same rights as everyone else. But not superseding the rights of women.

I don't even know how you would (practically) organise a society around gender. There is zero consensus around what 'woman gender' entails.

The rampant mockery & lack of acceptance of gender expression is blatant on here. Why use the word 'we'? You know exactly what is happening, people hide prejudice behind rhetoric. If you don't then that's great, but, the experience of trans people, non-binary people, queer people, why is that never part of the statements? Why not say, "I have empathy & understanding of the issues people experience; my concern is for safety of others, but I recognise that the volatile & emotional nature of the debate leaves many feeling dehumanised". Is nuance so hard?

because the rights of males to use women’s toilets, play in women’s sports, access women’s groups, play out fetishes in public, mean more to them than an abuse survivor.

Its never just about toilets.

NHS Fife is happy to spend almost half a million quid of public money to force their female staff to change in a room with men.

The ED manager in her place of employment wanted to have the female long term member of staff put in prison for objecting.

That ED staff member was training the male who would expect you to allow him to put his hands on or in you when you asked for a female medic.

gender is a social construct, a human made concept.
Many people don’t believe in it at all, just as many people don’t believe in a God.

Someone else has explained it but I'm still none the wiser. Trans people are being murdered, oppressed, & made to feel their existence is an affront to the world, this is unarguable, no?

"I have empathy & understanding of the issues people experience; my concern is for safety of others, but I recognise that the volatile & emotional nature of the debate leaves many feeling dehumanised"

This is pretty much what you could FWR opinion expressed over many threads condense to but that would require yo to read and understand and wouldn't allow you your grandstanding.

I act as respectfully and politely as I can to anyone. This includes trans people.

I don't agree that biological males presenting as women should be allowed into female spaces. Indeed, we don't allow men in female spaces. What does believing you are a woman change?

I'll be interested in what the government guidance comes up with.

I'm not really sure what's happening here, I think this is an attempt to draw me into some kind of argument but I don't understand how I'm supposed to reply

Yes. Not many of us though.

this is unarguable

No, it’s arguable, because outside of trans prostitutes in Brazil, trans people in Western countries aren’t being murdered at a high rate at all, actually lower than the rest of the population.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/trans-murder-rates/

"Rampant mockery" ? Please.

Why not say, "I have empathy & understanding of the issues people experience; my concern is for safety of others
You've ignored aallll the posts on here expressing empathy and understanding for trans people's issues, the posts saying 'live how you want as long as it doesn't affect others', the posts expressing concern for the safety of others, not least children and the poor woman who was raped in the secure hospital? You missed all of that?

I recognise that the volatile & emotional nature of the debate leaves many feeling dehumanised
Yes, it does. Preventing women from defining themselves as a group dehumanises women and girls. But I guess this criticism only goes one way?

They aren't being murdered at higher rates to the rest of the population. Why do you keep repeating that when it's not true.

In what sense are they 'oppressed' and 'made to feel their existence is an affront' in the UK?

Trans people are being murdered? Multiple trans people, are being murdered for being trans?

We're going to need some citations for that.

The greatest group being murdered for being themselves is actual women. Would you like those statistics?

You've deliberately conflated the things that should be separate. What does it take from you to be understanding of difference?

No, we are not. Not in the UK. Not in my European country. Check the statistics for murders. How are we oppressed when we have more rights than non-trans people ? And an affront to the world, when we are platformed everywhere, presented as "brave", put on the covers of magazines ? I don't think so.

I agree. I am not a scientist or a health care professional or a philosopher. I just come at this from an unshakeable belief that good mental health is founded on being able to recognise and accept reality and the things about oneself that can't be changed. If someone has disordered thinking that results in an eating disorder or psychosis or OCD, they get, or should get, help in the form of medication and counselling. But when a man states that he identifies as a woman, in other words he refuses to accept the reality of one of the most fundamental things about himself, which so often seems to derive from having swallowed wholesale harmful gender stereotypes, he is somehow being brave and is to be applauded and treated as different from other men?

What have I conflated that should be separate?

Basically a trans person on here explained it to you and you ignored it