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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is anyone on here trans-inclusive?

1000 replies

plinkyplonk123 · 15/01/2026 00:25

Hi everyone, this is just a quick post to ask if anybody else on here is trans inclusive? I know I’m definitely in the minority here but I just wanted to see.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
MathiasBroucek · 15/01/2026 09:59

Inclusive in the workplace, restaurant, transport. Yes

Inclusive in ladies' toilet, women's sport, rape crisis centre, women's jail, all-women shortlist. No....

bumblingbovine49 · 15/01/2026 09:59

Gretel346 · 15/01/2026 05:23

The problem is you don't have the point you think you do as women aren't unsafe from trans people.

They are unsafe from 'some' 'transwomen' as has been proved a number of times including those transwomen who have raped female prisoners when placed in female prisions.

I am personally also very concerend about the safety of transmen who spend a lot of time in male spaces which can also be an issue - as evidenced by the thread about the transman raped in a male psychiatric ward

In the context of what we are discussing, my primary concern with regards to safety is for females, regardless of what they feel like or present as. Their biology gives them certain physical disadvantages over males (on average), as is the case for the vast majority of mammals.

Of course on a an individual level, women are not in danger from the majority of transwomen, but the fact that women are very much much more in danger from males generally than women means that they are at more risk of aggression or assault from a transwoman than they are from a cis woman (I hate that term cis but use for clarity). The very existence of female spaces is to keep females separate from males, mostly for safety, why else would we have them? I don't want a male in my female space, however much they feel like a woman.

I don't mind transwomen anywhere else, I have no problem with them at all and will be kind, polite and inclusive. I even personally don't mind most of them in my female toliets but I completely understand why some women object and would support them in asking for transwomen to be excluded if necessary.

I am absolutely against

Trans women in female sports
Trans women in female showers/changing rooms
Trans women in female prisons and trans men in male prisons ( Unless the trans person is kept in a safe separate section of the the prison)
Trans women in male psychiatric facilities or hospital wards and trans men in female ones.

Trans women in women's refuges where women are fleeing male domestic violence (I think there is a strong argument for having DV refuges that are not sex segregated for victims that are male or transwomen or cis women who are happy to use a mixed sex refuges but single sex refuges should stay that way)

Those are my main red lines that come immediately to mind. Otherwise I feel like I am very trans inclusive

Shesafancyflapjak · 15/01/2026 09:59

I support everyone’s right to live, dress and identify as they wish. I do not support misogyny, hate and ignorance and can apply those concepts without hysteria.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 15/01/2026 10:00

plinkyplonk123 · 15/01/2026 00:27

Basically just saying that you don’t demonise the trans-community as a whole. You don’t have to be completely in support of everything and obviously people shouldn’t have to feel unsafe.

“Don’t demonize the trans community as a whole “

I bet my nans knickers that no one has ever said such nonsense in real life, never mind here. And they say we use hyperbole 😳

I don’t have a problem with anyone provided they are respectful,aware the world doesn’t revolve around them and don’t expect the hard fought rights and boundaries of women to be trampled to accommodate their beliefs.

It’s really not complicated

Whatwerewetalkingabout · 15/01/2026 10:00

Bloozie · 15/01/2026 09:55

Me.

I'm a trans inclusive feminist.

And I'm not interested in explaining or debating my position with trans exclusive feminists. There's enough conflict in the world right now without going out and looking for it on here.

Same :)

Imdunfer · 15/01/2026 10:02

Taztoy · 15/01/2026 09:33

I’m sure it is really uncomfortable to feel you have got the wrong body.

definitely sure. Absolutely.

why does that feeling trump my feelings?

Well I never said it did?

Sunshineandblueskysalltheway · 15/01/2026 10:03

Liberalinall · 15/01/2026 00:35

I think trans people have taken a long, adventurous, and difficult journey from one gender to another. Not only is it a huge biological journey - different hormones and body parts - it is a huge cultural journey. I think everyone should give these brave travelers as much support as possible.

Oh goodness. Where to start with this?

There is no such thing as gender beyond stereotypes and societal expectations placed (mainly) on women.

It is not possible to transition between the two sexes, male and female.

I am not "trans" inclusive as I do not believe that is a thing which exists. I would not express these facts to someone suffering that type of delusion/mental health crisis as I would not want to cause further damage or distress.

Men who believe they were 'born in the wrong body' should receive care and treatment focused on coming to terms with their reality. Surgery should be available to those at risk of taking their own lives if it helps. Ongoing therapy to assist with the biological reality that every cell in their body remains male would also be important.

Imdunfer · 15/01/2026 10:04

NotBadConsidering · 15/01/2026 09:45

Self ID is specifically for men who don’t want to change their bodies, they just want to identify as trans and get into women’s spaces. Therefore by definition, they can’t feel that uncomfortable with their bodies or the campaign for self ID would never have started, because they would be changing their bodies anyway.

If you think an “arduous journey” is a requirement for the trans experience, presumably you are against self ID?

And think trans people are only really trans if they are going through an “arduous journey”, not just saying they’re trans?

I certainly am against self ID but I don't agree with the rest of what you've written.

Imdunfer · 15/01/2026 10:05

TheKeatingFive · 15/01/2026 09:33

Women's spaces aren't a reward for an 'arduous journey'

I never said they were, I was talking about empathy, not toilet habits.,

heathspeedwell · 15/01/2026 10:05

The sad fact is that men who identify as women pose a similar risk of male-pattern violence as any other men. In fact if I could share a changing room with a man, or a transwoman, it's the transwoman who is statistically more likely to be a rapist.

This is from the Telegraph in February 2024. By December 2024 they reported that the number of transwomen rapists had risen by a further 10%.

"More than 70 per cent of transgender prisoners in British jails are serving sentences for sex offences and violent crimes, government figures have revealed.
At least 181 of the 244 transgender inmates, more than 74 per cent, are in jail for crimes including rape, forcing under-age children into having sex, grievous bodily harm and robbery."

Archived article.

I'm happy to be inclusive of transmen in women's spaces, but including transwomen puts all women and girls at risk, just as including men puts us at risk.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 15/01/2026 10:06

Slightyamusedandsilly · 15/01/2026 08:53

Not in my circle of family and friends. All very inclusive of sexuality, gender, ethnicity, class, age etc.

But then we all live in our own echo chambers, hence the MN GC echo chamber.

sexuality, gender, ethnicity, class, age

One of these things is not like the other.

And you missed sex off the list. Interesting.

Taztoy · 15/01/2026 10:08

Imdunfer · 15/01/2026 10:02

Well I never said it did?

I don’t want men in female single sex spaces.

Because of my trauma.

why does the feeling of trans identifying men trump mine?

RavenPie · 15/01/2026 10:08

I am reality inclusive - male and female are exclusive categories and you can’t wander from one to another. You can’t “identify” into a category from which you are excluded by material reality.

I am safeguarding inclusive. Single sex spaces are often necessary for safeguarding - specifically places where women are vulnerable - changing rooms and lavatories - anywhere where they are sick and/or unconscious such as a hostel dorm, sleeper train, hospital ward, refuge. Additionally I believe single sex spaces are valuable for mental well-being and there should be a distinction between, for example “mens sheds” and “bottled up blokes” support and social groups and a woman only walking groups as well as sex specific single sex spaces such as prostate cancer support, breastfeeding support and single sex spaces designed for power. I think there is a distinction between acknowledging that sometimes mixed sex doesn’t meet the objectives of supporting the group so it’s fine to be single sex and the single sex spaces that exist to exclude one sex (female) from power eg men only dinking and golf clubs used for networking (house of commons bar famously when MT was an MP).
Additionally children are a vulnerable group and need particular protection from sexualisation and sexual harm. Children have the right to grow into adults without psychological and chemical interference in their developmental pathway. Removal of safeguards for children in the name of “inclusivity” is just academic noncing. I am not paedophillia inclusive and am not in favour of producing a sub-set of consent age adults with pre-pubescent bodies. I think “glitter families” and “rainbow families” are grooming. I think telling a child their body is “wrong” or “god made a mistake” and encouraging chemical and surgical correction is a monstrous form of child abuse. I think the “yeet the teet” woman and professionals of that ilk should be in prison - not on insta.

I don’t believe in inherent, internal, gender identity, or “brain sex”. I believe gender is a social hierarchy that has placed men at the top and women at the bottom. Sissy porn is responsible for a lot of older male gender fanatics - not wrong body theory, gods mistakes etc. I believe a woman is a person with a female body and any personality - not a person with a feminine personality and any body (and vice versa).

I am aesthetic inclusive - dress how you please. Be as masc of femme as you like - but don’t tell me it’s literally changed your sex because that’s rude. A sex class is not a costume or a performance. I do have limits on my inclusivity - don’t wear sex or fetish clothes in public and expect me to think you are a person worth treating with respect. Wearing the clothes you masterbate in full time is perverted - not “brave” and you deserve ridicule.

I believe it is wrong to discriminate against anyone who claims a “trans” identity or a diagnosis of gender dysphoria in terms of services, housing, employment etc - but again - limits. If you turn up to a job interview and act like a dick and dress like a stripper you can’t expect to be treated the same as someone who dresses appropriately and behaves normally. “Bring your whole self to work” is stupid - bring your professional self only to work please. Expecting people to access services for their sex class such as changing areas, sex specific jobs, sex segregated sports etc is not discrimination. Men don’t need to compete in women’s cycling races or park run categories or change in the ladies or be female support workers.

I am healthcare inclusive but, again, I have limits. The same access as everyone else but no prostate exams for women who claim to be men - no smear tests for male people - no state funded cosmetic surgery or trans based hormone treatment and no medical intervention for children. People with gender dysphoria should have access to good mental health services (as should others with mental health problems).

That was a very long was of saying “not really”.

Seethlaw · 15/01/2026 10:09

Imdunfer · 15/01/2026 10:04

I certainly am against self ID but I don't agree with the rest of what you've written.

I certainly am against self ID

Highly transphobic, that. Self-determination is at the heart of the trans experience.

oncemoreuntothebeachdearfriends · 15/01/2026 10:09

Why no voting ?

Taztoy · 15/01/2026 10:10

Imdunfer · 15/01/2026 10:04

I certainly am against self ID but I don't agree with the rest of what you've written.

If trans identifying individuals can’t self ID, how do you categorise individuals who are trans? What do they need to demonstrate to be trans?

Cluborange666 · 15/01/2026 10:10

loislovesstewie · 15/01/2026 09:51

Good for you. Now please tell me what living as a, woman means?
And please read my previous post about my experiences with men who think they are women.

I’m only answering the op. Am I trans inclusive? Well I guess I am because the two trans people I know, I have welcomed into our lives and we have had only positive experiences. I’m never going to say that my (tiny) experience trumps anyone else’s lived experience. I’m just answering the question.

ThatBlackCat · 15/01/2026 10:10

oncemoreuntothebeachdearfriends · 15/01/2026 10:09

Why no voting ?

It's the womens_rights section, voting is only enabled on AIBU.

Happytap · 15/01/2026 10:11

WallaceinAnderland · 15/01/2026 00:52

I'm definitely trans inclusive. I'm also gender critical. These positions aren't mutually exclusive.

I want trans people to have rights, to not be discriminated against and to partake in all aspects of socieity.

I don't want trans people using facilities that are provided specifically for the opposite sex. So, no transwomen in single sex female spaces, sports, changing rooms, etc.

Why can't we live like that, it's not so hard is it OP?

This basically!

NotBadConsidering · 15/01/2026 10:13

Imdunfer · 15/01/2026 10:04

I certainly am against self ID but I don't agree with the rest of what you've written.

The whole campaign for self ID took off because enough people identifying as trans wanted the benefits of it without the “arduous journey” of a diagnosis of gender dysphoria or any treatments. It’s a popular and essential policy in the trans community, an essential tenet of gender ideology. If the majority of trans people saw the “arduous journey” as an essential part of the experience, they would also see that self ID demeans their experience.

Therefore the majority of trans people don’t have any sort of “arduous journey” or see it as necessary.

If you are against self ID but think trans people have an “arduous journey” that involves mandatory dysphoria and lots of medical treatments, that makes you a trans medicalist, which is, by the trans community, considered transphobic.

Judellie · 15/01/2026 10:14

See a brand new MRA has arrived🙄

Newusername0 · 15/01/2026 10:16

SnowDaysAndBadLays · 15/01/2026 00:29

Yes, I absolutely include transmen in female spaces, and trans people as a whole in everything that's open to anyone.
I just expect things that are separated by sex to stay that way.

I think this is pretty spot on. I’m very happy for people to live, dress, act and speak any way they choose. I absolutely protect the rights of people to live their life peacefully and happily as whomever they choose. I believe gender is a social construct and can be fluid - think blue and pink, long hair or short hair, skirt or trousers, etc…
But sex is not fluid. Male or female is a biological fact that cannot and should not be influenced by gender ideology.

Does that make me trans-inclusive?

AnSolas · 15/01/2026 10:17

WhatMummyMakesSheEats · 15/01/2026 05:12

Me!

I think there are many people here who just don’t understand and aren’t seeking to understand.

There are people saying ‘yes I am because I’m happy for trans men to be in women only spaces’. Either they don’t understand the terminology and mean trans women (and are trying!), or in fact they are not trans-inclusive because they are actually saying they DON’T support trans women in women only spaces.

If you come back ?

Please feel free to pop on over to this thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5473470-5473470-trans-woman-gym-goer-caught-masturbating-in-womens-changing-room?page=1
feel free to explain what you think are the advantages of including some males in what should be female only single sex spaces.

Or this thread.
It may explain why women say they have no objection to having females with a gender identity being allowed to use female only single sex spaces
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5475381-well-this-was-totally-predictable
but feel free to explain the advantages of creating policy and a system which enables rape.

And

PSA

For all the individuals who claim to be "feminists" while

• claiming that there can be male women and

• support the inclusion of males in what should be female only single sex spaces and

• support the removal of the rights and protections that women need

you are about as much a feminist as any MRA is.

Trans woman gym goer caught masturbating in women’s changing room | Mumsnet

I’ve included the NY Post article, the original TikTok video and an American police officer YouTuber video (Officer Tatum). This was in California (na...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5473470-5473470-trans-woman-gym-goer-caught-masturbating-in-womens-changing-room?page=1

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/01/2026 10:18

plinkyplonk123 · 15/01/2026 00:27

Basically just saying that you don’t demonise the trans-community as a whole. You don’t have to be completely in support of everything and obviously people shouldn’t have to feel unsafe.

You cannot talk about 'trans inclusivity' without first defining 'trans'. The problem most of us here have is that the whole of gender ideology is predicated on unquestioning acceptance of what someone says about themselves - which is itself rooted in a post modernistic analysis of self and society which many reject.

I cam across this really interesting post earlier, which sums up the issue of 'inclusivity' for me:

"Trans ideology relies on jargon rather than truth. Claims are not assessed by whether they are true or false, but by some other adjective: kind, inclusive, affirming, progressive etc Accuracy has become completely secondary to moral tone. And as a result, disagreement is treated less as an error to be answered than as a moral defect to be named. Dissent is labelled ‘harmful’, ‘unkind’, ‘backwards’. A society that conducts debate in this way has already lost the argument. In fact, it doesn’t even know what an argument is"

RedAndWhiteBlanket · 15/01/2026 10:18

I don't mind if men want to wear women's clothes and take hormones or get surgery.

I do mind if they want to redefine what the words "woman" and "female" mean to include them.

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