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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ofcom will now investigate Talk Tv re transphobia.

1000 replies

Imnobody4 · 04/12/2025 21:33

Here we go again.

From Good Law Project:

We said we’d sue over Ofcom’s decision to dismiss 22,000 complaints about transphobia on TalkTV – now the regulator has caved.

But we had monitored its output for July 2025, a month in which it carried 11 discussions on trans people. And in every discussion, its hosts and guests consistently spouted transphobic views. TalkTV’s stance mirrors the broader editorial position of its sister newspaper The Times, whose toxic and intellectually dishonest campaign against trans people we believe to be a contributor to the rise in hate crime against them.

x.com/JuliaHB1/status/1996576537894703427?t=VgmnlP9LETiwrihlgEkCqA&s=09

Among my misdeeds, apparently, is that I said this on air: "By definition, if you’ve had to get a piece of paper to say that you are a woman, you must accept then that you are man."

I'm happy to be found guilty of defending women's rights and safety, knowing the actual law, understanding basic biology and knowing what a woman is. 🤷🏻‍♀️

OP posts:
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nicepotoftea · 07/12/2025 14:18

Seethlaw · 07/12/2025 14:14

How is it a view?

It is a fact that 51% of the population is composed of human beings whose body is geared (successfully or not) towards producing large gametes.

It is a fact that this part of the population has always been called "female", "women and girls".

There's no interpretation in this, only facts.

Trans people really don't exist if sex classification doesn't exist.

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:19

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 07/12/2025 14:07

Thank you, that does seem to be a defensible position. It's interesting that you have chosen "she" rather than "he". I agree that sex-based pronouns are easier linguistically. For a while, I used gender-identity-based pronouns when told to do so, but discovered that referring to my son as "she" was not only more difficult linguistically, but caused me to be unable to function normally. The cognitive dissonance overwhelmed my thought processes and I ground to a halt. The distress is real and excruciating; I imagine stroke patients experience something similar if they are unable to communicate.

That's really interesting that you have a child who asked for a switch of pronouns. Do you mind me asking about that?

sanluca · 07/12/2025 14:21

Namelessnelly · 07/12/2025 14:08

So go on, explain how we are getting the definitions of the sexes wrong. My betting is you’re going to co-opt people with DSD or waffle on about chromosomes. I mean, as I said, other posters tried this and got their arses handed to them but I’m sure you’ll do better than that.

I never understand why DSD suddenly means that the word woman can't mean adult human female. Ok, so it isn't perfect as there will be some people who won't neatly fit, but saying a woman is someone of either sex who wants to be known as a woman is even worse as it can literally mean anyone.

Same as the argument some men should be allowed to use womens facilities but also don't remove the mens and womens and make everything mixed sex even though in this situation everything is mixed sex.

Makes zero sense

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:23

Namelessnelly · 07/12/2025 14:15

So what are the actual facts?

That "woman" has never been understood as simply referring to basic biological facts.

That "sex" is not as simple as gender critical feminism pretends.

Gender critical feminism is also incoherent in how it presents the relationship between "sex" and "gender".

These are starting points.

FallenSloppyDead2 · 07/12/2025 14:24

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:23

That "woman" has never been understood as simply referring to basic biological facts.

That "sex" is not as simple as gender critical feminism pretends.

Gender critical feminism is also incoherent in how it presents the relationship between "sex" and "gender".

These are starting points.

Edited

You're on FWR. You can take us beyond the starting points

KilkennyCats · 07/12/2025 14:24

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:23

That "woman" has never been understood as simply referring to basic biological facts.

That "sex" is not as simple as gender critical feminism pretends.

Gender critical feminism is also incoherent in how it presents the relationship between "sex" and "gender".

These are starting points.

Edited

Those are facts? What planet do you live on??

Seethlaw · 07/12/2025 14:25

nicepotoftea · 07/12/2025 14:18

Trans people really don't exist if sex classification doesn't exist.

I know, right!?

The whole point of using the word trans is precisely to indicate that "this person was born in one sex, but feels like they belong to the other sex." That's what trans means.

Put another way: if I'm a man because I feel like a man, then I'm a man, not a "trans man". There's no use for "trans" so why is it there?

SionnachRuadh · 07/12/2025 14:25

nicepotoftea · 07/12/2025 14:18

Trans people really don't exist if sex classification doesn't exist.

Trans can't exist if we go the whole Queer Theory route and insist that everything is a performance based on archetypes which themselves don't really exist.

Trans depends on us tacitly recognising the reality of sex while accepting that a subset of people (men, let's be honest) are entitled to access spaces and services designed for the opposite sex on their own say so.

This is why you never see Jolyon campaigning for more unisex toilets - his position is that it's really really important to have toilets with WOMEN on the door that are nominally single sex but which in practice are open to any men willing to assert a trans identity.

Namelessnelly · 07/12/2025 14:26

sanluca · 07/12/2025 14:21

I never understand why DSD suddenly means that the word woman can't mean adult human female. Ok, so it isn't perfect as there will be some people who won't neatly fit, but saying a woman is someone of either sex who wants to be known as a woman is even worse as it can literally mean anyone.

Same as the argument some men should be allowed to use womens facilities but also don't remove the mens and womens and make everything mixed sex even though in this situation everything is mixed sex.

Makes zero sense

But the thing is, people with DSD are male or female. There is not one DSD that affects both sexes. The fact people with DSD are recognised is because sex is Dimorpic. Otherwise DSD would not be known as a DSD and would never be able to be identified. They’d just be explained as “that’s just the way some people are”.

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:27

nicepotoftea · 07/12/2025 14:18

Trans people really don't exist if sex classification doesn't exist.

Sex classification does exist. When babies are born they are classified: this is also recorded in official documents.

but sex classification doesn't capture the full facts.

Namelessnelly · 07/12/2025 14:27

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:23

That "woman" has never been understood as simply referring to basic biological facts.

That "sex" is not as simple as gender critical feminism pretends.

Gender critical feminism is also incoherent in how it presents the relationship between "sex" and "gender".

These are starting points.

Edited

So if a woman is not an adult human female, what is a woman? Without co-opting those with DSD, explain how sex is not dimorphic and immutable. You can do it. I believe in you.

Seethlaw · 07/12/2025 14:28

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:27

Sex classification does exist. When babies are born they are classified: this is also recorded in official documents.

but sex classification doesn't capture the full facts.

Edited

How are they classified? What are the words used to classify them?

Namelessnelly · 07/12/2025 14:29

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:27

Sex classification does exist. When babies are born they are classified: this is also recorded in official documents.

but sex classification doesn't capture the full facts.

Edited

But you’ve just said sex I’d not as simple as just male and female so how do the medical staff know which babies are male and which are female? Or are they just guessing 😂😂😂😂

Namelessnelly · 07/12/2025 14:29

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:27

Sex classification does exist. When babies are born they are classified: this is also recorded in official documents.

but sex classification doesn't capture the full facts.

Edited

So what are the underlying realities?

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:36

Namelessnelly · 07/12/2025 14:29

So what are the underlying realities?

That sex classification is typically done at birth based on observation of genitalia (sometimes these days in utero based on chromosomes),. But the reality is that sex / gender cannot be reduced to genitalia or chromosomes.

Genitalia is a very good indication of sex/ gender, but there are lots of other variables at play.
When it comes to being a girl/
woman, this has never been reducible (has never been understood as reducible) in a simple way to genitalia,

SionnachRuadh · 07/12/2025 14:36

There's also a common sleight of hand here that denies that "trans" is a recently invented umbrella term covering several very distinct populations.

Consider the following examples:

  • A 20-year-old effeminate gay man who, maybe because of internalised homophobia, feels more comfortable presenting in a female persona
  • A 50-year-old heterosexual man who isn't at all gender nonconforming, but who has been cross dressing for erotic purposes since he was 12, and now wants to live out his fetish full time
  • A 14-year-old girl who hates her developing body, is afraid of becoming a woman, and wants to opt out of the pornified definition of womanhood that she's been exposed to at school

Trans ideology insists that these three people are all the same thing, when simple common sense tells us that they really aren't.

nicepotoftea · 07/12/2025 14:37

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:23

That "woman" has never been understood as simply referring to basic biological facts.

That "sex" is not as simple as gender critical feminism pretends.

Gender critical feminism is also incoherent in how it presents the relationship between "sex" and "gender".

These are starting points.

Edited

If you want to use the word 'women' to express some vapid idea that has no meaning, then go ahead. I might find it offensive or irritating, but I tolerate many people who have beliefs that I find offensive or irritating

However, legislation, science and policy require precise language.

You can argue all day about rare disorders that make it difficult to determine sex, but the fact that these disorders exist doesn't confer any rights on people who don't have those disorders, or change what sex categories mean.

SionnachRuadh · 07/12/2025 14:37

Namelessnelly · 07/12/2025 14:29

But you’ve just said sex I’d not as simple as just male and female so how do the medical staff know which babies are male and which are female? Or are they just guessing 😂😂😂😂

Surely we know that medical staff use the Hogwarts sorting hat 😉

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:38

SionnachRuadh · 07/12/2025 14:36

There's also a common sleight of hand here that denies that "trans" is a recently invented umbrella term covering several very distinct populations.

Consider the following examples:

  • A 20-year-old effeminate gay man who, maybe because of internalised homophobia, feels more comfortable presenting in a female persona
  • A 50-year-old heterosexual man who isn't at all gender nonconforming, but who has been cross dressing for erotic purposes since he was 12, and now wants to live out his fetish full time
  • A 14-year-old girl who hates her developing body, is afraid of becoming a woman, and wants to opt out of the pornified definition of womanhood that she's been exposed to at school

Trans ideology insists that these three people are all the same thing, when simple common sense tells us that they really aren't.

All the examples you give are your projections/ stereotypes/ prejudices about trans people. They have very little if anything to do with trans people's actual experiences and What being trans is.

Seethlaw · 07/12/2025 14:39

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:36

That sex classification is typically done at birth based on observation of genitalia (sometimes these days in utero based on chromosomes),. But the reality is that sex / gender cannot be reduced to genitalia or chromosomes.

Genitalia is a very good indication of sex/ gender, but there are lots of other variables at play.
When it comes to being a girl/
woman, this has never been reducible (has never been understood as reducible) in a simple way to genitalia,

When it comes to being a girl/ woman, this has never been reducible (has never been understood as reducible) in a simple way to genitalia,

And yet that's literally the one and only thing men use to oppress women. Men oppress all women, regardless of their gender presentation, because of a single, common fact: they have the same genitalia.

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:41

Seethlaw · 07/12/2025 14:39

When it comes to being a girl/ woman, this has never been reducible (has never been understood as reducible) in a simple way to genitalia,

And yet that's literally the one and only thing men use to oppress women. Men oppress all women, regardless of their gender presentation, because of a single, common fact: they have the same genitalia.

I think that's a msssive oversimplification.

SionnachRuadh · 07/12/2025 14:41

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:38

All the examples you give are your projections/ stereotypes/ prejudices about trans people. They have very little if anything to do with trans people's actual experiences and What being trans is.

Edited

Actually they're slightly anonymised versions of people who I know.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that none of us know any trans people.

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:44

SionnachRuadh · 07/12/2025 14:41

Actually they're slightly anonymised versions of people who I know.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that none of us know any trans people.

Your projections, stereotypes prejudices about people you know.

Seethlaw · 07/12/2025 14:44

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:41

I think that's a msssive oversimplification.

Which fact(s) am I oversimplifying?

SionnachRuadh · 07/12/2025 14:45

puppymaddness · 07/12/2025 14:44

Your projections, stereotypes prejudices about people you know.

You're now making very big assumptions about people in my life and the relationships I have with them, to fit your ideology.

How dare you?

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