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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Always been GC, but now afraid I'm becoming transphobic

674 replies

HouseOfGuineaPigs · 30/09/2025 23:07

I've always been gender critical and 100% in support of safe spaces for natal women only. I'm completely comfortable with being gender critical. But I'm concerned I've crossed a line into becoming a full on bigot, which is something I don't want to be. Due to my own background of mental health and trauma issues I follow pages on this issue on Facebook. I just saw one with a graphic post saying Using Preferred Pronouns Is Suicide Prevention and it made me want to scream and throw things.

I've been suicidal, I've attempted. I've battled see harm and self destructive behaviours since childhood. I should be sympathetic about the struggles people are having . But I feel manipulated seeing posts like that one. I use preferred names when I'm addressing trans persons. I am kind to them, I don't mention their issues. I treat them the same as anyone else. I will call a bloke Sue even if his real name is Bob, it feels odd, but I will do it to be respectful . But calling a he a she is a step too far. I would either use their name or use they.

Why do I feel so strongly that I'm being manipulated ? None of the trans people I know have abused me in any way. They haven't infringed on my boundaries . I have 2 trans friends, another who is non binary and 2 acquaintances. They have all been decent .

I just feel resentful that I'm being made to feel responsible for someone not taking their life because I don't affirm their identity ?

I'm horrible aren't I ? Please sort my head out !

OP posts:
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31
Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/10/2025 22:03

feministmom4ever · 04/10/2025 19:15

As I learned yesterday, courtesy of Tandora, according to the TRAs (or at least some of them) we are not merely viewed as second class citizens, we are not citizens at all. It isn’t merely good old fashioned misogyny, as I previously thought, it’s dehumanization.

This.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/10/2025 22:06

BeeSourianteAgain · 04/10/2025 20:55

Also, I'm currently in a voice chat with two other trans people and both say that they would not remain friend with someone so disrespectful as to not use the correct pronouns. The fact that you seem to think that using someone's legal name is you being 'nice' speaks volumes about the type of person you are.

Who do you imagine cares what you’re talking about with your other extremely online friends?

MurkyWeather2 · 04/10/2025 22:49

Helleofabore · 03/10/2025 09:26

Wow. That is profound! You have really been clear now.

  1. Prison data is not necessarily equal to crime data
  2. There is a critical distinction between offending and conviction

I mean. Fuck!! These are profound statements that I am sure none of us have ever considered before. Thank you, oh revered expert, for opening our eyes with so much knowledge and your expertise!

yeah? Nah.

I mean, I'm only a medium-sized brain but haven't women being saying this about VAWG data since forever?

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 05/10/2025 00:18

BeeSourianteAgain · 04/10/2025 19:44

Oh and also, your "friends" aren't your friends if you're misgendering them, there's very few trans people who hate themselves so much that they would remain in contact with someone who disrespected them so badly. Though given that 'gender critical' activist always lie, I suspect those friends don't really exist.

You seem very sure that the behaviour you describe is dreadful. Do you have any opinion on the behaviour of someone who tells his parents that they are to behave as if he is dead and has been replaced by an unconvincing imitation of a woman? They are to accept this imitation as if it is as real as their actual daughter, and if they find this distressing they are bigots who are to be shunned.

It is their son, who they have known for the whole of his life, for longer than he can remember, who must not be "deadnamed". They are to pretend to be delighted at the "death" of the person they love and not allow their distress to show even for a moment. They are to affirm him in everything he desires and lie every time they mention him, even though they can see the harm the pretence does. They are not to notice the coercion and the implicit threat that if they do not play along he will cut them off. They are to accept the rudeness of his cheerleading handmaid, her screamed insults, because this is their fault for being transphobic (i.e. realists).

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 00:33

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 05/10/2025 00:18

You seem very sure that the behaviour you describe is dreadful. Do you have any opinion on the behaviour of someone who tells his parents that they are to behave as if he is dead and has been replaced by an unconvincing imitation of a woman? They are to accept this imitation as if it is as real as their actual daughter, and if they find this distressing they are bigots who are to be shunned.

It is their son, who they have known for the whole of his life, for longer than he can remember, who must not be "deadnamed". They are to pretend to be delighted at the "death" of the person they love and not allow their distress to show even for a moment. They are to affirm him in everything he desires and lie every time they mention him, even though they can see the harm the pretence does. They are not to notice the coercion and the implicit threat that if they do not play along he will cut them off. They are to accept the rudeness of his cheerleading handmaid, her screamed insults, because this is their fault for being transphobic (i.e. realists).

Did they really know their 'son' though?

Parent's being 'coerced' into accepting their children's choices/disposition isn't restricted to transgenderism. The streets are full disgruntled parents who for reasons of their's children's homosexuality/partner/job/political choice/belief are 'forced' to accept their children as autonomous beings. You act as if you own your children. You'd prefer they be miserable to meet your standards? Your rejection of their choices isn't a form of coercion?

Respecting people as they are is part of maturity. IE we can disagree with someone but be happy they are content within themselves & have found a peace that eluded them before.

feministmom4ever · 05/10/2025 02:47

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 00:33

Did they really know their 'son' though?

Parent's being 'coerced' into accepting their children's choices/disposition isn't restricted to transgenderism. The streets are full disgruntled parents who for reasons of their's children's homosexuality/partner/job/political choice/belief are 'forced' to accept their children as autonomous beings. You act as if you own your children. You'd prefer they be miserable to meet your standards? Your rejection of their choices isn't a form of coercion?

Respecting people as they are is part of maturity. IE we can disagree with someone but be happy they are content within themselves & have found a peace that eluded them before.

Except there is zero evidence that medical intervention makes them happier! Even your star doctor, Johanna Olson-Kennedy, admits to it!

“Depression symptoms, emotional health and CBCL constructs did not change significantly over 24 months.”

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.05.14.25327614v1.full-text

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 03:40

feministmom4ever · 05/10/2025 02:47

Except there is zero evidence that medical intervention makes them happier! Even your star doctor, Johanna Olson-Kennedy, admits to it!

“Depression symptoms, emotional health and CBCL constructs did not change significantly over 24 months.”

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.05.14.25327614v1.full-text

Edited

The consensus of experts globally disagree. In fact if the argument had been so unconvincing Dr Cass wouldn't have continued access of minors under trial.

Two things can be true at once. The overwhelming data pointing in a direction & more evidence required which is normal for many medical treatments.

SupremeArbiter · 05/10/2025 07:17

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 00:33

Did they really know their 'son' though?

Parent's being 'coerced' into accepting their children's choices/disposition isn't restricted to transgenderism. The streets are full disgruntled parents who for reasons of their's children's homosexuality/partner/job/political choice/belief are 'forced' to accept their children as autonomous beings. You act as if you own your children. You'd prefer they be miserable to meet your standards? Your rejection of their choices isn't a form of coercion?

Respecting people as they are is part of maturity. IE we can disagree with someone but be happy they are content within themselves & have found a peace that eluded them before.

How does any of that give them the right to break the law? The right to take away what little peace I have?

KittenKins · 05/10/2025 08:05

You aren't horrible OP, not at all, especially because you recognise what you perceive might be an issue & are willing to explore it.

Firstly, using preferred pronouns doesn't prevent suicide in the way the numbers declare. I will focus on the youth figures as I have a better understanding of this. Data from NHS England on suicides by young patients of the gender services at the Tavistock clinic showed there had not been a large rise in young gender dysphoria patient & social media had added to the perceived risk, despite not meeting the standards of evidence.

You feel manipulated because certain sectors of society has made us feel this way. Gender critical is seen by some as trans phobic. I don't see the two as the same thing.

Look at it this way, if anyone in your socal circle held you responsible for their suicidal feelings because you didn't like the cake they made you, or because you wanted to end the relationship, would you be responsible? No.

I, like you, wish no harm on trans people like your friends, but that doesn't mean I have to have to sit back while the needs of others are walked over.

Rights for one group don't trump another.

Take a break from social media. I frequently step away when I feel myself bubbling over on issues close to my heart, especially after I misread a post on twitter one night & posted a comment that very much caused upset.

Brainworm · 05/10/2025 08:18

Cass highlighted that there are many ways into gender distress and there are different routes out.

She suggested that for a very small percentage of those with gender distress, puberty blockers, might be one of the treatments offered and this needs exploring through clinical trials.

TheKeatingFive · 05/10/2025 08:41

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 03:40

The consensus of experts globally disagree. In fact if the argument had been so unconvincing Dr Cass wouldn't have continued access of minors under trial.

Two things can be true at once. The overwhelming data pointing in a direction & more evidence required which is normal for many medical treatments.

I don't see why we should value consensus with no evidence.

Consensus can be come to for all kinds of reasons, the wellbeing of the patient is not necessary a factor,

Many of these 'experts' have built careers on this topic. Of course they don't want to see that challenged. Intimidation tactics can be used to prevent those who disagree from speaking out. Those who dissent are generally cast out, thus not disturbing the 'consensus'.

I have heard activist medical professionals use this framing before, but to what extent are patients aware that their care is being based on 'consensus' rather than actual evidence? It's a very concerning sleight of hand.

MysticalPombear · 05/10/2025 08:50

RareGoalsVerge · 30/09/2025 23:39

Suicide is not "caused" by you having boundaries and refusing to be threatened into submission.

There are 3 different things here:

  • Actual suicide - this happens as a result of severe mental illness. It is not caused by any one thing that someone else did or failed to do. Suicide is complex and never has just one trigger.
  • suicidal thoughts. These are experienced by very many unhappy people. They generally don't lead to actual suicide in the absence of severe mental illness. Life is tough and a lot of people are unhappy with their circumstances. Yes the thought of suicide or self harm does cross people's minds but forcing other people to performatively pretend to believe your fantasies in order to wish-away this kind of unhappiness is a horrible kind of narcissism that you are quite right to back away from.
  • suicidal threats. These are generally made by people who aren't particularly suicidal, as a means of emotional manipulation and control. Regularly seen in domestic abuse situations (if you leave me I will kill myself and it will be your fault) - almost never leads to actual suicide except if a dramatically staged "suicide attempt" goes wrong and is accidentally successful when the perpetrator was actually intending to survive. These angry, hateful suicide threats should be ignored totally as any other kind of narcissistic rage should be.

My perception is that most talk about suicide from trans people is in category 2 & 3. Where there is a danger of type 1 the appropriate response is treatment of the underlying mental illness.

People who take their own lives or are serious about it usually don't want people to know fo intervene... so don't announce it. This is the sad thing about suicide, so the people who are vocal about it usually don't intend to.

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 08:52

TheKeatingFive · 05/10/2025 08:41

I don't see why we should value consensus with no evidence.

Consensus can be come to for all kinds of reasons, the wellbeing of the patient is not necessary a factor,

Many of these 'experts' have built careers on this topic. Of course they don't want to see that challenged. Intimidation tactics can be used to prevent those who disagree from speaking out. Those who dissent are generally cast out, thus not disturbing the 'consensus'.

I have heard activist medical professionals use this framing before, but to what extent are patients aware that their care is being based on 'consensus' rather than actual evidence? It's a very concerning sleight of hand.

Yup, thousands of highly accredited experts globally can't all be ideologically 'captured'. You'd also see a substantially higher number of detransitioners which you don't.

You sound like Alex Jones.

SupremeArbiter · 05/10/2025 08:54

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 08:52

Yup, thousands of highly accredited experts globally can't all be ideologically 'captured'. You'd also see a substantially higher number of detransitioners which you don't.

You sound like Alex Jones.

Edited

Then the answer for trans women is to campaign to change the law in the U.K.

the answer is not to break the law.

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 08:56

SupremeArbiter · 05/10/2025 08:54

Then the answer for trans women is to campaign to change the law in the U.K.

the answer is not to break the law.

Gender affirming care is legal in the UK for adults & also legal for minors if they are accepted under the research program.

TheKeatingFive · 05/10/2025 09:03

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 08:52

Yup, thousands of highly accredited experts globally can't all be ideologically 'captured'. You'd also see a substantially higher number of detransitioners which you don't.

You sound like Alex Jones.

Edited

Of course they can if they kick out/intimidate into silence those who don't agree.

And I see your silly little slur for what it is. You can FRO with that nonsense.

Patients deserve EVIDENCE BASED HEALTHCARE. That has always been the gold standard. Why has this subsection of 'healthcare' abandoned that principle?

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 09:10

TheKeatingFive · 05/10/2025 09:03

Of course they can if they kick out/intimidate into silence those who don't agree.

And I see your silly little slur for what it is. You can FRO with that nonsense.

Patients deserve EVIDENCE BASED HEALTHCARE. That has always been the gold standard. Why has this subsection of 'healthcare' abandoned that principle?

You do realise many medical treatments aren't 'gold standard' in terms of fool proof research particularly in medicalisation for mental health for children. SEE ADHD. Oh wait…

The same 'intimidation' routine for COVID vaccines & climate science"?

NeonFish · 05/10/2025 09:14

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 09:10

You do realise many medical treatments aren't 'gold standard' in terms of fool proof research particularly in medicalisation for mental health for children. SEE ADHD. Oh wait…

The same 'intimidation' routine for COVID vaccines & climate science"?

Just as Thalidomide - the second biggest medical scandal next to gender affirming "care" didn't cause biological deficiencies in every baby whose mother took Thalidomide. But we still banned it as a treatment for morning sickness.

SupremeArbiter · 05/10/2025 09:14

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 08:56

Gender affirming care is legal in the UK for adults & also legal for minors if they are accepted under the research program.

What has that got to do with my post?

they can be gender affirmed in the correct space for their sex. They shouldn’t break the law.

TheKeatingFive · 05/10/2025 09:15

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 09:10

You do realise many medical treatments aren't 'gold standard' in terms of fool proof research particularly in medicalisation for mental health for children. SEE ADHD. Oh wait…

The same 'intimidation' routine for COVID vaccines & climate science"?

Not all healthcare is perfect, but it should be striving to improve, according to gold standards principles.

And you can quit your silly smear tactics by trying to bring your hot topics into the conversation. You sound deluded. We are talking about healthcare, what's climate science got to do with it? Climate science is heavily evidenced based.

NotBadConsidering · 05/10/2025 09:16

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 09:10

You do realise many medical treatments aren't 'gold standard' in terms of fool proof research particularly in medicalisation for mental health for children. SEE ADHD. Oh wait…

The same 'intimidation' routine for COVID vaccines & climate science"?

Medical treatments for ADHD can be stopped at any time.

Once a child has missed puberty the sterility, infertility and lack of sexual function cannot be reversed.

So if you think the rationale for the treatment of ADHD with medication is inadequate, how the hell do you support the sterilisation of children?

Do you have anything to say about the fact gender clinicians admitted the data is poor but still push it? That’s activism.

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 09:25

NotBadConsidering · 05/10/2025 09:16

Medical treatments for ADHD can be stopped at any time.

Once a child has missed puberty the sterility, infertility and lack of sexual function cannot be reversed.

So if you think the rationale for the treatment of ADHD with medication is inadequate, how the hell do you support the sterilisation of children?

Do you have anything to say about the fact gender clinicians admitted the data is poor but still push it? That’s activism.

Edited

As I said, 'experimental' treatments aren't anything new in the medical profession.

As far as sterilty goes, it's not a zero sum game. Individual values vary where some people may value their mental health more than their fertilty & be prepared to risk some poorer health outcomes to maintain their sanity & fit into society better because when they don't are socially ostracised as freaks.

NotBadConsidering · 05/10/2025 09:46

Howseitgoin · 05/10/2025 09:25

As I said, 'experimental' treatments aren't anything new in the medical profession.

As far as sterilty goes, it's not a zero sum game. Individual values vary where some people may value their mental health more than their fertilty & be prepared to risk some poorer health outcomes to maintain their sanity & fit into society better because when they don't are socially ostracised as freaks.

As I said, 'experimental' treatments aren't anything new in the medical profession.

Firstly, well done on acknowledging that the treatments given to gender distressed children are experimental. That’s progress. You’ve done well today after acknowledging the fetish in adults.

Children. We are talking about children. Experimental treatments on children require extraordinary circumstances, namely that the child will die without the treatment. We know that isn’t true and the negative effects are significant.

As far as sterilty goes, it's not a zero sum game. Individual values vary where some people may value their mental health more than their fertilty & be prepared to risk some poorer health outcomes to maintain their sanity & fit into society better because when they don't are socially ostracised as freaks.

This is a lot of words to say it’s ok to sterilise children so they can “pass” better. You said “people” but it’s children.

How can a child of 9, 10, 11 know that their individual values include being sterilised? Can a child that age understand properly they are giving up any chance of having a family of their own? Or any sexual function? Or an orgasm? Do you think a child can hold such individual values?

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