Always been GC, but now afraid I'm becoming transphobic

[HouseOfGuineaPigs]

I've always been gender critical and 100% in support of safe spaces for natal women only. I'm completely comfortable with being gender critical. But I'm concerned I've crossed a line into becoming a full on bigot, which is something I don't want to be. Due to my own background of mental health and trauma issues I follow pages on this issue on Facebook. I just saw one with a graphic post saying Using Preferred Pronouns Is Suicide Prevention and it made me want to scream and throw things.

I've been suicidal, I've attempted. I've battled see harm and self destructive behaviours since childhood. I should be sympathetic about the struggles people are having . But I feel manipulated seeing posts like that one. I use preferred names when I'm addressing trans persons. I am kind to them, I don't mention their issues. I treat them the same as anyone else. I will call a bloke Sue even if his real name is Bob, it feels odd, but I will do it to be respectful . But calling a he a she is a step too far. I would either use their name or use they.

Why do I feel so strongly that I'm being manipulated ? None of the trans people I know have abused me in any way. They haven't infringed on my boundaries . I have 2 trans friends, another who is non binary and 2 acquaintances. They have all been decent .

I just feel resentful that I'm being made to feel responsible for someone not taking their life because I don't affirm their identity ?

I'm horrible aren't I ? Please sort my head out !

No - I feel the same when seeing hyperbole like that. Emotional manipulation aimed at women.

You feel manipulated because that is manipulative.

Came to say just that.

Anyone who demands you change your behaviour so that they don't suicide is being manipulative. Other people's emotional problems are not your problem to solve.

The problem is everything is transphobic -unless you are 100 percent TW are Women and there are no circumstances in which they should ever be excluded from womens spaces or treated differently to women you will be seen as transphobic so it could be time to just embrace it. If it is transphobic to think a convicted rapist doesn't belong in the female prison estate then I am prepared to be considered a transphobe.

Repeatedly seeing infographics and campaigns of that ilk started me on the path to becoming GC. I absolutely loathe immature manipulative suicide threat nonsense, and lose all respect for organisations that are willing to underwrite tose campaigns.

Welcome new poster.

You may need to stay off SM and speak to a real doctor who can help you self regulate.

Suicide is not "caused" by you having boundaries and refusing to be threatened into submission.

There are 3 different things here:

• Actual suicide - this happens as a result of severe mental illness. It is not caused by any one thing that someone else did or failed to do. Suicide is complex and never has just one trigger.
• suicidal thoughts. These are experienced by very many unhappy people. They generally don't lead to actual suicide in the absence of severe mental illness. Life is tough and a lot of people are unhappy with their circumstances. Yes the thought of suicide or self harm does cross people's minds but forcing other people to performatively pretend to believe your fantasies in order to wish-away this kind of unhappiness is a horrible kind of narcissism that you are quite right to back away from.
• suicidal threats. These are generally made by people who aren't particularly suicidal, as a means of emotional manipulation and control. Regularly seen in domestic abuse situations (if you leave me I will kill myself and it will be your fault) - almost never leads to actual suicide except if a dramatically staged "suicide attempt" goes wrong and is accidentally successful when the perpetrator was actually intending to survive. These angry, hateful suicide threats should be ignored totally as any other kind of narcissistic rage should be.

My perception is that most talk about suicide from trans people is in category 2 & 3. Where there is a danger of type 1 the appropriate response is treatment of the underlying mental illness.

I did name change for this, I admit . I'm a long time MN-er.

I think that's what makes me uneasy. Most mental health professionals would surely say that sucida l ideation or threats can't be cured by giving into what the person is demanding of them. I know it's not politically correct to say gender euphoria is a mental illness or disorder but I don't see how it isn't . Narcissism and a fragile sense of self/unstable senses of self , being delusional to me suggest a mental health problem. Yet psychiatrists tell us if someone says they are Napoleon or Jesus we don't have an obligation to go along with their delusion. I don't see how this is different .

Your instinct is perfectly reasonable OP.

It might be the strength of your feeling that seems over the top? Wanting to throw things does feel extreme.

I don't think it's transphobia though. More like a kind of frustration at a situation where you are feeling very manipulated.

If it feels unhealthy to you, maybe it would be a good idea to take a bit of a break from interacting with that kind of material and focus on some other things - ideally real things with real people. Everyone needs a reset now and again.

Honestly, you sound quite reasonable in your approach, but the intensity of your emotional response is concerning. Social media shouldn’t have you wanting to scream or throw things. It sounds like you’re too emotionally invested in it. Just step back for a while and avoid triggering content.

@HouseOfGuineaPigs you can see the manipulate nature of gender ideology exactly because of your history of depression. What they're doing is the same as an abusive partner who threatens to kill themselves if you leave, its wholesale emotional blackmail designed to guilt/bully and/or manipulate you into doing what they want even when its actively harmful to yourself.
Don't feel guilty for recognising the truth and that its natural to be angry when someone tries to manipulate you into this way

In the entire history of our planet, there is not a single suicide note that reads "bye bye cruel world, you keep misgendering me".
Misgendering wasn't even a thing until year 2000.

How did those Victorians cope without puberty blockers and enforced counter-intuitive pronouns?

Gender ideology is built on emotional manipulation and lies.

A brilliant barrister referred to it as pressure to participate in 'immersive role-play'. The pressure means that you can't freely consent. That may cause a strong emotional reaction in those that think free consent is important.

I feel the same as you, FWIW.

Perhaps your strong reaction is towards extreme trans rights activists, rather than trans individuals.

TRAs are very often not trans themselves. I think anger towards them is wholly justified as they do a great deal of damage to young people and all women.

I'm glad I'm not alone . I come from a background of abuse, different kinds and more than one perpetrator, so I tend to be very sensitive to feeling my boundaries are being violated.

You’re not expecting anyone to do something they don’t want to do. Of course you’re angry.

I don't think you are wrong to feel angry...

But, if social media is making you feel regularly angry/upset then I would cut back on it. People talk about "social media echo chambers" but the opposite can actually be worse- social media algorithms deliberately showing you things that will make you angry because it drives engagement. There are a lot of genuinely obnoxious people out there and a lot of people producing rage bait. And it will be shown to you at a disproportionate rate if it's an area you are already emotionally invested in. Which is both angering, and potentially quite isolating because other people you talk to in real life won't have seen the same things you have. So you can seem crazy if you start talking about the unreasonableness. Or they will seem bafflingly interested, because they aren't being exposed to it.

I think awareness is good - of the problems with transactivism and of some of the really unpleasant TRAs. But ultimately, there is nothing you can do about some silly twit who thinks misgendering is as bad as child abuse posting their thoughts on Facebook. Dylan Mulvaney enraged me so I avoided anything involving him because ultimately, I have no control over Americans and their nonsense.

The really unpleasant opinions online are real. But the frequency with which you see them is artificial.

Me too @HouseOfGuineaPigs.

I just saw one with a graphic post saying Using Preferred Pronouns Is Suicide Prevention and it made me want to scream and throw things.

AS others have said it would be good to avoid social media.

This quote you included is enough to make anyone reasonable and sane want to throw things. But for someone who has really experienced it, this sort of manipulation is trivialising your lived reality.

It is grotesque and you have every right to be angry.

But dont turn that anger on yourself. Turn it on them.

And as PP said, maybe steer clear of that sort of social media for a while.

Or you could read in full both FWR threads on how terf bunnies have conquered the internet and created a whole new sisterhood of rabbit fans.

Some of the images are really so nice, and they made the TRAs look really stupid.

(I am not saying this is the answer, but a temporary escape.)

Meh. I became transphobic years ago. Due to the insane demands, aggression and sheer vindictiveness I can't stand any of them. Puts my back up instantly if I hear " I'm trans..."

You appear to be confusing belief with societal convention. Politeness doesn't require belief. Using 'please', 'thank you', 'Sir', 'Ms', 'Madam' or addressing people by their preferred nickname even tho it's not their 'real' name doesn't require an earned entitlement. We use these conventions of respecting the dignity of our fellow humans as a means to maintain social cohesion. That's why your natural instinct for cooperation is pointing you in the direction of acquiescence. Politeness & survival are inextricably linked in that they improve the capacity of survival for us all.

Whilst I agree enforced politeness isn't helpful, encouraging its maintenance certainly is to social harmony that's why we teach our children to parrot such conventions regardless of their belief.

However, as far as the workplace & services goes, it's discriminatory not to treat everybody with equal pleasantries & could well qualify as harassment.

While I appreciate your uneasiness in maintaining social conventions because you may believe they facilitate social harms, one could say that about anybody being 'let of the hook' for uncivilised/harmful behaviour. It's essentially saying 'because I disagree with you I don't have to treat you humanely'. And we all know how that ends: See Charlie Kirk.

So is this thread really about you being transphobic, or about feeling manipulated, or what? I'm confused.

It's possible either to avoid sexed pronouns, or to use other people's preferred pronouns as you see fit, and still disengage from the first whiff of suicide-related manipulation. If someone is expressing suicidal feelings in the workplace, then of course it is prudent to follow policy and refer the matter upwards so they can be offered support, but you have no obligation at all to bend to anyone else's will, out of fear and dread.

I’m really surprised Facebook allowed a post discussing a suicide threat. I literally tried to post something that started “after my mother passed away…” two months ago and the overzealous facebook AI censor flagged it for apparently mentioning suicide when it didn’t (because she died of cancer ffs). When I deleted that line, the post was ‘allowed’. I would suggest reporting the post because it sounds like it might be against FBs TOS.

It's not a normal social convention to refer to someone using opposite sex pronouns, just because they are (or claim to be) suffering from a delusion that they are the opposite sex.

It can be harmful to someone to be coerced into using opposite sex pronouns.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

I've no idea why you've shoehorned Charlie Kirk into this.

Women saying no were not responsible for the behaviour of the unhinged male who shot Charlie Kirk. Women are not responsible for male-on-male violence.

Or are you actually saying that women saying no deserve to receive the same treatment as him? Is this a veiled threat?