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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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49
Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:44

I guess whether it’s relevant or not is for the court to determine, rather than you Howse.

Howseitgoin · 15/09/2025 09:50

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:44

I guess whether it’s relevant or not is for the court to determine, rather than you Howse.

Um, the point you spectacularly missed is that being in a relationship with an individual from particular identity group doesn't necessarily align with a political ideology that's beneficial to them.

As the link showed Republicans are more attracted to trans porn than Democrats.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:54

I didn’t say it was, I chose not to engage with your “point”.

Howseitgoin · 15/09/2025 09:55

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:54

I didn’t say it was, I chose not to engage with your “point”.

Yes, you chose to 'engage' with irrelevancy instead.

ThatBlackCat · 15/09/2025 09:57

NotMyNigelFarage · 15/09/2025 09:34

Lol, those are the widely accepted historical facts. Besides, how would you already know about them if they were false?

All this shit about grease fires is just twitter nonsense. It's pretty grim but it's not quite on the level of planting gunpowder in theatres packed full of innocent civilians.

If you already knew this, as you claim, then it's even more embarrassing that you'd think the actions of the trans lobby were comparable. Blush

If you can't understand the level of personal vicious hatred of women by men is on a far worse level than women disrupting society to get the vote (without hating men), then you are beyond help.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 09:58

Thanks for these. Online radicalisation and glorifying of violence is a real problem.

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:06

ThatBlackCat · 14/09/2025 09:49

No one is demonising 'trans' people. We have a hatred of males taking our rights away and entering our HARD WON single sex spaces, @LittleAlexHornesPocket .

MALES. Whether they are in a suit and tie, or in a dress. It's still MALE.

You really have absolutely no idea whatsoever what we are upset about. You think 'trans' people are a separate species or something, so therefore exempt from societal rules and expectations. They are MALE. Regardless of what they wear.

not that this is the point of the thread but… are you aware transitions can go both ways? How do you feel about women transitioning to men? Are they also ‘MALE’? Respectfully, it sounds like you’re confused about who you have a ‘hatred’ for.

but again, your comment has no relevance to the original thread and therefore is just hate speech, do you just search for threads with trans in the title so you can get all shouty about something you appear to have very little understanding of?

OneAmberFinch · 15/09/2025 10:12

Howseitgoin · 15/09/2025 09:50

Um, the point you spectacularly missed is that being in a relationship with an individual from particular identity group doesn't necessarily align with a political ideology that's beneficial to them.

As the link showed Republicans are more attracted to trans porn than Democrats.

Edited

Agree and disagree. I don't think it necessarily aligns to a political party orientation - much has been written lately about how the alt-right and the alt-left overlap in weird ways - but I literally cannot imagine a trans person in 2025 being in a relationship with someone who was not supportive of trans ideology, and not just that but who didn't see "trans rights" as an overriding mission.

ThatBlackCat · 15/09/2025 10:14

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:06

not that this is the point of the thread but… are you aware transitions can go both ways? How do you feel about women transitioning to men? Are they also ‘MALE’? Respectfully, it sounds like you’re confused about who you have a ‘hatred’ for.

but again, your comment has no relevance to the original thread and therefore is just hate speech, do you just search for threads with trans in the title so you can get all shouty about something you appear to have very little understanding of?

Edited

Firstly, if you knew anything at all about this, you would know that we have no problem with females who transition to men. As they are females and hence no....threat.....to.....us. Do you need that explained any slower to you? It's apparent that you have absolutely no understanding of the issue at all and seem to think you have a 'gotcha' (trans men) that we somehow haven't had at least 4 thousand posters use on us before.

Secondly, my response was to a poster's comment. I was replying to their post. If saying (the basic common knowledge) that males are different than females and that females deserve single sex spaces is 'hate speech', then I suggest that is unhinged and you would be unhinged for saying basic biology and the rights of the female sex is 'hate speech'.

Helleofabore · 15/09/2025 10:14

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:06

not that this is the point of the thread but… are you aware transitions can go both ways? How do you feel about women transitioning to men? Are they also ‘MALE’? Respectfully, it sounds like you’re confused about who you have a ‘hatred’ for.

but again, your comment has no relevance to the original thread and therefore is just hate speech, do you just search for threads with trans in the title so you can get all shouty about something you appear to have very little understanding of?

Edited

This is posted on the separated board set up to have discussions around how gender identity interacts with the needs and rights of female people. Anyone who uses this board regularly will likely be reading this thread.

Feminism is, of course, for all female people. That includes those female people who hold the philosophical belief that they are men or boys. Meaning that usually any discussion about the needs of female people includes that group of female people as well.

This is why accusations of being ‘anti-trans’ are false. Because many of our discussion points on female single sex provisions include female people who have transgender identities, but not male people. Therefore not ‘anti’ trans, just female focused.

Merrymouse · 15/09/2025 10:16

RedToothBrush · 14/09/2025 09:39

As I said on previous thread

This shooting would therefore fit with patterns of radicalisation akin to religion, it would fit with a right wing gun culture, it would fit with youth disaffection with mainstream politics, it would fit with difficult online communities which are out of sight from authorities, it would fit with the lone, quiet gunman AND it would fit with uncontrolled and unchallenged purity spirals within left wing politics.

But I doubt you'll see many people reflect on all these patterns, instead they'll focus on whichever element best fits their agenda.

I think we have a perfect storm scenario that's only growing. I suspect we will see others from other areas as youth disaffection grows and anger at the establishment rises. Historical data shows revolutions and civil unrest is much more common with high youth unemployment / underemployment and declining standards of living regardless of political affiliation. It's important we look at this from all angles.

I'd also add alienation from your traditional community to the list and being part of a death cult feeling like it was under threat tbh.

My point being there will be no one reason, but a build up of multiple ones which are as difficult for the right to reconcile with themselves as it will be for the left meaning the likely result will be to lash out at the other rather to reflect on the elements from their own sphere of influence.

What is clear to me in this case is however you cut it, and I think this is true of every shooter, is they they are a product of BOTH their upbringing and the influences they come across later.

It is crucial to understanding this that being from a Mormon conservative background which was right wing and heavily invested in guns was as crucial as a left wing radicalisation and potentially gay/trans partner and BOTH are highly likely to have contributed to the killers mindset and this is an unavoidable reality that pretty much no one wants to acknowledge. The possibility of a trans element is only one strand of a bigger picture and it is not this alone which is the problem if it is proven.

As it stands, there a lot of speculation on twitter going through Lance's online presence from user names, forums and associates which do suggest he was furry/trans but I am still taking with a degree of a pinch of salt at this stage. There's nothing I find wholly trustworthy at this point. And this doesn't mean he's involved.

And we can't forget the question that was asked immediately before Kirk was shot. That question isn't going away.

What I would say is there is something of a problem for trans people in Utah right now because on top of the above and the speculation around it there seems to be one account linked to Lance saying 'we did it' in reference to Kirk, another Utah trans account saying the day before that they hoped Kirk would be evaporated and that something big would happen the next day and a third trans account from someone in Utah linked to a song put online a month ago called 'Charlie Kirk dead at 31'. Given the sheer amount of threats and wishing for the death of political opponents maybe we shouldn't read much into this, because it's been so widely accepted within communities as to become noise rather than something more sinister. This is why putting a load of threats online isn't a great move because you can't predict the future and you might end up caught in a situation with your metaphorical dick hanging out in public.

These apparent threats are naturally raising some eyebrows after the fact about a wider potential conspiracy rather a lone gunman idea. I think this perception is actually going to be really hard to shift even if it's a load of nonsense and pure coincidence. Because even if it is noise it's still normalised and in the background.

I don't think for one second that the FBI won't be all over this angle, looking through discord and anyone remotely linked to both Lance and Tyler though because if it is right it has somewhat significant implications about how they handle the case.

But they have to be right. If they get it wrong there are some very genuinely vulnerable trans people at significant risk at this point.

It's a mess. There are going to be innocent people caught up in the fallout out from this and it's naive to suggest otherwise.

As much as I think trans is bollocks and there's a lot of very questionable individuals who identify as trans I am, and have always been, concerned about vulnerable individuals especially young kids who have been mislead, groomed and otherwise lied to about being trans and the implications of that. This incident will affect perceptions regardless of the truth and what comes out in time.

It sucks for everyone concerned tbh.

Has there been confirmation that he was LDS?

From what I know of Mormon mummy blogs, it's a very tightly knit world, where most people his age will be thinking about going on missions or getting married. Even if you are at the more 'liberal' end of the spectrum, there seems to be a strong expectation that you will get married young and have at least four children, and spend the rest of your life taking on responsibilities within the church that are pretty much a full time job.

It's not like being a lapsed catholic or non practicing jew where there is a pattern for remaining part of the community even if you don't believe. Its much more 'you're in or you're out'.

There are so many parts of this shooting that are difficult to fathom from the other side of the pond.

ThatBlackCat · 15/09/2025 10:19

Seriously, what is with the 'but but but but...what about trans men?' attempt at a gotcha? In 2025. Do these posters who we've never seen in this part before truly think they are the first poster ever to come up with that? Like as if we haven't heard it at least around 9 thousand times so far?

Merrymouse · 15/09/2025 10:22

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:06

not that this is the point of the thread but… are you aware transitions can go both ways? How do you feel about women transitioning to men? Are they also ‘MALE’? Respectfully, it sounds like you’re confused about who you have a ‘hatred’ for.

but again, your comment has no relevance to the original thread and therefore is just hate speech, do you just search for threads with trans in the title so you can get all shouty about something you appear to have very little understanding of?

Edited

do you just search for threads with trans in the title

I think that might be you.

This is the feminism sex and gender discussion board, and the post you referenced was about men.

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:24

Helleofabore · 15/09/2025 10:14

This is posted on the separated board set up to have discussions around how gender identity interacts with the needs and rights of female people. Anyone who uses this board regularly will likely be reading this thread.

Feminism is, of course, for all female people. That includes those female people who hold the philosophical belief that they are men or boys. Meaning that usually any discussion about the needs of female people includes that group of female people as well.

This is why accusations of being ‘anti-trans’ are false. Because many of our discussion points on female single sex provisions include female people who have transgender identities, but not male people. Therefore not ‘anti’ trans, just female focused.

Okay this is genuinely interesting to me - and not something I previously understood.

I still don’t really understand, so if you are empathic and protective towards women who hold the philosophical belief that they are male, you must also respect that there are people born male who hold the philosophical belief they are female? How are they then separated from the men who presumably you find a threat to female only spaces because they don’t in fact hold that belief but use it as an excuse to infiltrate spaces that don’t belong on them?

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:25

ThatBlackCat · 15/09/2025 10:14

Firstly, if you knew anything at all about this, you would know that we have no problem with females who transition to men. As they are females and hence no....threat.....to.....us. Do you need that explained any slower to you? It's apparent that you have absolutely no understanding of the issue at all and seem to think you have a 'gotcha' (trans men) that we somehow haven't had at least 4 thousand posters use on us before.

Secondly, my response was to a poster's comment. I was replying to their post. If saying (the basic common knowledge) that males are different than females and that females deserve single sex spaces is 'hate speech', then I suggest that is unhinged and you would be unhinged for saying basic biology and the rights of the female sex is 'hate speech'.

I’ve responded to a poster who’s reply was more respectful and informative ☺️

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:27

Merrymouse · 15/09/2025 10:22

do you just search for threads with trans in the title

I think that might be you.

This is the feminism sex and gender discussion board, and the post you referenced was about men.

Edited

Yeah tbf I just saw this in the trending section - I don’t really understand how the comments have then spiralled from trying to filter out misinformation to what they have but it seems you guys have a whole thing going on! I’d like to understand better but I fear I’ll be shouted down

ThatBlackCat · 15/09/2025 10:30

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:25

I’ve responded to a poster who’s reply was more respectful and informative ☺️

You barged in thinking you had a 'gotcha', and called me hateful. When all along you had no idea what you were even talking about - so no one would ever call your replies "respectful and informative".😂

SionnachRuadh · 15/09/2025 10:31

Merrymouse · 15/09/2025 10:16

Has there been confirmation that he was LDS?

From what I know of Mormon mummy blogs, it's a very tightly knit world, where most people his age will be thinking about going on missions or getting married. Even if you are at the more 'liberal' end of the spectrum, there seems to be a strong expectation that you will get married young and have at least four children, and spend the rest of your life taking on responsibilities within the church that are pretty much a full time job.

It's not like being a lapsed catholic or non practicing jew where there is a pattern for remaining part of the community even if you don't believe. Its much more 'you're in or you're out'.

There are so many parts of this shooting that are difficult to fathom from the other side of the pond.

I'm pretty certain from the articles in Deseret News that he was raised LDS but dropped out in his teens. From my knowledge of the area he came from, it's over 90% Mormon.

The culture has become more accepting of gay youth in recent years, but they have to swim against a very strong expectation of (hetero) marrying young and having lots of kids. That will be much more intense in a place like St George than in Sin City aka Salt Lake.

College would be the place for non-conforming youth to find themselves (unless they're at BYU), but Tyler seems to have done one semester and dropped out for undisclosed reasons. Maybe a mental health crisis, but that's just me speculating.

Helleofabore · 15/09/2025 10:31

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:24

Okay this is genuinely interesting to me - and not something I previously understood.

I still don’t really understand, so if you are empathic and protective towards women who hold the philosophical belief that they are male, you must also respect that there are people born male who hold the philosophical belief they are female? How are they then separated from the men who presumably you find a threat to female only spaces because they don’t in fact hold that belief but use it as an excuse to infiltrate spaces that don’t belong on them?

No one can change sex. Single sex spaces are based on sex and not on gender identity. Perhaps you can tell us exactly what makes a male person with a philosophical belief about their identity that doesn’t reflect material reality different from all other male people.

if you have genuine questions about this, I suggest you start your own thread or your read the great many threads on this very board, the one that MN told us we had to have separate from the other feminism board, that is specifically about this topic. The board you accused a poster of deliberately seeking out to comment on.

Your questions have been answered already over years of posts. But if you need to, I recommend you start your own thread to ask the question generally.

TheUnusuallyQuerulentMxLauraBrown · 15/09/2025 10:32

Merrymouse · 15/09/2025 10:16

Has there been confirmation that he was LDS?

From what I know of Mormon mummy blogs, it's a very tightly knit world, where most people his age will be thinking about going on missions or getting married. Even if you are at the more 'liberal' end of the spectrum, there seems to be a strong expectation that you will get married young and have at least four children, and spend the rest of your life taking on responsibilities within the church that are pretty much a full time job.

It's not like being a lapsed catholic or non practicing jew where there is a pattern for remaining part of the community even if you don't believe. Its much more 'you're in or you're out'.

There are so many parts of this shooting that are difficult to fathom from the other side of the pond.

The Robinson family are definitely LDS. The reporting that the father contacted their Bishop and the Bishop contacted law enforcement on the father’s behalf illustrates it (in most Christian communities a Bishop isn’t the first contact for the congregation, it would be a pastor, priest, vicar etc).

https://www.understandingmormonism.org/mormon_bishops

The Twigg family also seem to be LDS.

Can’t be easy growing up same sex attracted in a Mormon family in the most Mormon place in the world (Utah). Not an excuse to kill someone but perhaps a specific vulnerability that can be exploited into radicalism.

Mormon Bishops

Bishops are the local congregation leaders. They are lay ministry which means they volunteer their services and are not paid for them. He is referred to as the "father of the ward".

https://www.understandingmormonism.org/mormon_bishops

Howseitgoin · 15/09/2025 10:35

OneAmberFinch · 15/09/2025 10:12

Agree and disagree. I don't think it necessarily aligns to a political party orientation - much has been written lately about how the alt-right and the alt-left overlap in weird ways - but I literally cannot imagine a trans person in 2025 being in a relationship with someone who was not supportive of trans ideology, and not just that but who didn't see "trans rights" as an overriding mission.

There's so much we do not know. You are assuming the relationship wasn't just a gay one from the point of view of the shooter. IE he didn't see this person as trans or believe in trans identity.The reports indicate the trans person was undergoing transition which may have only been a recent development.

Aside from that, the shooter may have just been left leaning & just hated Kirk. And one certainly doesn't have to be in a gay or trans relationship with someone to hate Kirk's beliefs.

Helleofabore · 15/09/2025 10:35

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:27

Yeah tbf I just saw this in the trending section - I don’t really understand how the comments have then spiralled from trying to filter out misinformation to what they have but it seems you guys have a whole thing going on! I’d like to understand better but I fear I’ll be shouted down

Can I suggested if you don’t want to be ‘shouted down’, you might look to your own posts where you inadvertently joined in with another poster in accusing posters of ‘hatred’.

I can see you were replying using BlackCats words, perhaps you didn’t check the post BlackCat was replying to that made the accusation in the first place. If you didn’t check, perhaps you didn’t realise you just added to that accusation by repeating the word as you did. Or did you not realise the significance of their use of ‘hatred’ in the post you responded to?

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/09/2025 10:37

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:06

not that this is the point of the thread but… are you aware transitions can go both ways? How do you feel about women transitioning to men? Are they also ‘MALE’? Respectfully, it sounds like you’re confused about who you have a ‘hatred’ for.

but again, your comment has no relevance to the original thread and therefore is just hate speech, do you just search for threads with trans in the title so you can get all shouty about something you appear to have very little understanding of?

Edited

This whole sub forum is intended for discussions on all issues related to women's sex based rights and the negative impact of trans ideology on them, and on children. You surely knew that when you found your way here?

Women cannot become male, no matter how they identify. It is not about 'hatred' it is about learning to live with reality and recognising that sex actually does matter is certain situations and circumstances. People can present how they please within certain social boundaries, but female spaces and categories are for female people only - for good reason.

Waitingforthecold · 15/09/2025 10:39

ThatBlackCat · 15/09/2025 10:30

You barged in thinking you had a 'gotcha', and called me hateful. When all along you had no idea what you were even talking about - so no one would ever call your replies "respectful and informative".😂

Edited

I do think it’s hateful to talk about topics like this in such a close minded way, especially if the discussion is taking place on what is, above all else a public forum. You aren’t having these discussions in private spaces (this thread appeared on the trending section). It’s clear you don’t want people like me to understand your POV, you only want people who already agree with you to join in the discussion. I was interested in what people had to say, particularly understanding more about how the rhetoric isn’t anti-trans but I don’t think I’m going to get any level headed explanation or discussion from this group of people so - disengage I guess.

but I hope you understand that once I was corrected about what this discussion board was, I admitted I didn’t understand, changed my tact and opened my mind. I have been instantly shot down, I don’t think your groups approach is very effective to your cause - which does leave me with the conclusion that it is just hateful, and not informative or respectful.

If you and other posters don’t feel it’s your responsibility to inform, then maybe don’t engage in the first place - yourself and others did not have to reply.