Charlie Kirk shot during a debate about trans people

[feministmom4ever]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15086277/Charlie-Kirks-final-words-assassinated-Utah-dead.html

I didn’t agree with many of his political views, but I liked how he interacted with college students who couldn’t answer the question “what is a woman?”.

No one asked you to.

There might be other completely innocent people who get caught in the fallout though, because of the way this is being so polarised and saying Kirk 'deserved it' because of his horrible political views doesn't really help the mood right now.

The fear is escalation that goes way beyond either individual man involved in this shooting.

Why does his death have political ramifications here? His Turning Point activism never took off with the UK youth.

I think you are missing the point, in believing that there is a paradox and that his death necessarily contradicted his arguments.

What wake up call do you expect his supporters to hear?

It reminds me of all the pro Palestine posters who said what Hamas did on Oct 7th wasn’t “justified” but “understandable”. The rapes and murders of young women at a music festival. The brutal killing of entire families. Then whataboutery when challenged. It was terrorism. And this is murder. Gloating (even when you’ve done your unconvincing caveat that you regret that a man was murdered) is only going to inflame the situation across the board and make it worse for all. There are no winners.

We are already lost IMO

I would agree if the policies stemming from his political extremism were harmless. But the hate, polarisation, and division fuelled by his influence have caused real harm, indirectly costing lives and freedoms, a consequence he played a significant role in.

No, he did not deserve to die in that way. But he lived by the political sword, recklessly ignoring the real world consequences of his views and rhetoric.

Exactly, but I fear this is beyond the grasp of some.

Lots are reporting it, but it hasn't been officially announced by any law enforcement agencies. It appears to be coming from an alleged preliminary report from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. There is no official information released however.

The Independent says the FBI won't comment on this point at this time, and the BBC has just said it's unconfirmed.

Agree.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cvgv4y99n7rt

is charged with killing Melissa Hortman, a Minnesota Democrat, and her spouse Mark.

• State Governor Tim Walz called it a "politically motivated assassination"
• Officials have described his plan to conduct a killing spree in the early hours of Sunday morning as he visited four homes belonging to state lawmakers

June this year - democratic poltcian targeted and one killed.

Now a right wing guy who was apparently very popular with right wing under 30s murdered very publically.

Political violence is on rise in USA and it's killing people and it's having poltical rippes- and frankly history tends to show that's not a great sign for any society.

Really??? He wasn’t fighting for “gun deaths” he logically pointed out that if guns were to remain it was as most inevitable gun deaths would occur. If you look at his full commentary on this he compared it to the fight to own a car (which caused more deaths per year than cars). You have to look at the cost/benefit to society. Just like you might think the value to society of having cars even if it means deaths outweighs the benefits of not having cars the same with guns. I don’t happen to agree with him but I’m not American and therefore don’t know what it’s like to live in a gun owning society.

He had not been hoisted on his own petard. He was likely assassinated by a professional with (sounds like illegally owned untraceable gun).

‘He’d probably be’

You can’t just vilify someone and attack their character by saying what you think they’d do, without any evidence they’ve ever done this?

Charlie Kirk once tweeted ‘You can tell a lot about a person by how they react when someone dies’ and it’s very very true

I completely agree. It’s not going to end well.

How so ? This is all a matter of record. He was asked a question at a meeting about what he would do if his ten year old daughter became pregnant via rape. His answer was that the baby would be born. He went further and as well as condemning abortion and advocating for a complete ban under any circumstances, he said women should have to prioritise motherhood over careers, and that women are suffering because they are encouraged to focus on jobs over families. He criticized birth control, saying it make women angry and bitter, and that females over 30 aren’t attractive in the dating pool.

He was an evangelical Christian fundamentalist, pushing for Christian Nationalism and a strong Christian presence in American politics. He was anti trans, anti gay, a misogynist and a racist. In 2023 at a political conference hosted by his Turning Points USA group, he called Martin Luther King Jr an awful person and of the Civil Rights Act of 1965 that outlawed discrimination on the basis of race, colour, religion, sex and national origin, and prohibited segregation he said ‘We made a huge mistake when we passed the Civil Rights Act in the 1960s’. How much more evidence do you need.

The fact that he was murdered for his views is no less a tragedy than any others who have been assassinated for similar reason. It’s yet another nail in the coffin of free speech. But that doesn’t make him a saint.

There's a video on YT where Charlie Kirk says 'Leviticus 18 says "Thou shalt lay with another man and be stoned to death"... just saying'.

So he says overtly homophobic things and then quite cowardly says he's just the messenger.

This is my thoughts exactly. Terrorist attacks happened in the UK many years ago even though there were strict gun laws. Absolutely think that guns need to be banned though.

Noted.

Will keep an eye out for developments, if any

I didn't say it does justify capital punishment.
It was answering the question 'give examples of how he was a bigot'.

And then obviously there have already been assassination attempts on Trump himself, one very nearly successful.

I don't know much about him in depth but I have in the past seen clips from videos where he was politely debating politics with university students. Which I would have thought is a win for everyone - in getting one's arguments heard and challenged, in learning more about the political views of others and exploring one's own political beliefs through argument and debate.

I can't fathom the mindset of someone who would want to murder him for that. It's grotesque.

Have you been living under a rock or did you miss the screenshots of 'who next' up thread?

Farage seems to be doing just fine in the polls.

It feels isolating in real life because my friends think it’s amazing that a “fascist” dies to an assassination attempt. I am centrist in my political views, but I despise anyone who condones violence.

There were 59 gun related deaths in the UK in 1996, and 24 last year. So tightening gun laws does reduce deaths.

How do they not see the irony?

I can’t think of anything more fascist than killing people you disagree with