Charlie Kirk shot during a debate about trans people

[feministmom4ever]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15086277/Charlie-Kirks-final-words-assassinated-Utah-dead.html

I didn’t agree with many of his political views, but I liked how he interacted with college students who couldn’t answer the question “what is a woman?”.

For those of you not in America right now it might be hard to understand just how bad the right wing cult around Trump is making life for many people. Charlie Kirk was a propagandist for a president who has consistently from before his first campaign called for and celebrated violence and revenge against his political enemies. The rise is politically motivated violence is terrifying but it is being stoked by the president himself and all his resources.

He is the politician calling for people he disagrees with to be shot.

www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2024-11-04/the-people-and-groups-trump-has-threatened-with-violence

Farage was doing fine in the polls before as well.

True, that’s why I think guns should be banned. However, in an increasingly hostile society, people may want to find ways to kill people they dislike.

Genuine question - whose deaths were ‘indirectly’ caused by Charlie Kirk?

As I personally was not under the impression that he was influential enough to have caused anything much, let alone loss of life - he was a talking head for the younger wing of the American conservative right (I vaguely knew him as a younger Matt Walsh type, but admittedly I’m not the right audience for either of them) half the people on this thread didn’t even know his name until yesterday.

I expect he will become far more influential in death than he ever was in life, which is presumably the opposite of what his critics wanted?

Yes but the US already has over a billion guns. And you aren't starting from the same starting point, hardly anyone in the UK in 1996 owned a gun or had any interest in owning one.

And again.

You said the only reason anyone here was sympathetic was because of his trans views.

I've been banging on about the dangers of political polarisation and violence for about a decade but still...

If my friends though my it was amazing that a father of two young. Children was gunned down but his beliefs they would no longer be my friends. I would be questioning everything about their character. What reaction would they have if you called them out. If you ever expressed opinions contrary to theirs. They are not worthy of you friendship

I didn't say that "he deserved it". I described it as "a minor tragedy in the scheme of things."

Yep.

In discussions of him today, I have questioned people who downplayed his views (eg. 10yo rape victims should not be allowed abortion & the Leviticus mandate to stone men for gay sex was 'God's perfect law for sexual matters'. )

But you are totally right about the insane US left attitudes. There is a terrifying attitude from far too many that the murder isn't a big deal bc he had unpleasant views. Completely ignoring the sacred right to free speech and the evilness of punishing that w death.

I wonder what the motive was. An older man, clearly a skilled shooter. There are conspiracies swirling that Kirk was pressuring Trump about his Epstein links, and about Epstein's relationship w Mossad. Some speculate Mossad killed him, they are famously good snipers. Otoh there are so many crazy groups out there. This was cleat someone who knew a lot about shooting, that's all we can say rn.

He had not been hoisted on his own petard. He was likely assassinated by a professional with (sounds like illegally owned untraceable gun).

No.
The gun is a Mauser 3.0 bolt action rifle
standard deer hunting weapon
and a standard static deer hunting shot
within the capabilities of a significant proportion of adults in Utah

It’s not just them. I know so many people like this in real life.

Well from your post it sounds like you are trying to justify what happened to CK, which makes you just as bad as the people you are criticising.

And presumably not registered to the shooter otherwise they would know who he was 🤦‍♀️

Those who ARE in the US are perhaps finding it hard to understand that many people outside of the US believe that NO ONE should be SHOT TO DEATH for saying things, even if the things they said were objectively terrible things.

… but then, we in the UK have gun control and did away with the death penalty in the 1960s, while the US has those arsebackwards.

After the UK introduced handgun ban in 1997, gun related deaths have halved.

It is still statistically significant.

Not to his family. And it may end up being quite major in the “scheme of things”. Is it really necessary to downplay it? Do you think that’s the morally correct way?

Of course it’s not going to be important to you personally, he’s not your loved one, but you are not the arbiter of how “minor” a man’s death was. People would say that about most people’s deaths, wouldn’t they? Oh wait, they probably would have more human decency than that.

None of whom deserve the time of day

I take your point about Trump not being the free speech advocate he claims to be, and I wouldn't vote for him, but from this side of the pond, he definitely seems to have been democratically elected.

Both Democrats and Republicans seem happy to say that black is white, particularly when it comes to women's rights, so can you explain how we recognise the Americans who aren't in a cult?

cui bono?
My belief is that this was a false flag operation.

Kara Dansky
@KDansky

I disagreed with Charlie Kirk on just about everything. But, we shared an opposition to "gender identity" and the abolition of sex.

He once had me on his show to discuss it. He was polite, outgoing, and funny.

During the interview, I said something about the "TQIA." He exclaimed, "I don't know what any of that means!" I said, "Don't worry, nobody does." He and his entire audience laughed.

I am not a Republican, and I am certainly not MAGA. But I am grieving his death in part because he was a human being, in part because he leaves behind a wife and two children, and in part because of what this says about American society.

I will not take any part in any political violence, and I will stand with anyone, wherever they stand on the political spectrum, who will denounce it.

I hope America can recover from this.

#RIP

EDIT: I will block anyone who comes on here to glorify violence.

https://x.com/KDansky/status/1965887040010203358

The fact that you are unaware of his influence - and significantly underestimate it - suggests you may not know enough to comment on his views and impact.

He had a social media reach and live attendance at college campuses and rallies that most political candidates could only dream of. Aside from Joe Rogan, I can’t think of a more influential Trump supporter who helped the campaign through the sheer popularity and the impact of their voice.

Re deaths, his support of Trump's policies on abortion, gun control and immigration (to name a few) have indirectly led to deaths of innocent citizens - surely that's obvious?

I just provided evidence of him making bad taste jokes (at least I hope they were jokes!) and mocking an old man gravely injured in the very post you quoted. Not unreasonable to conjecture that had PP died, CK would have kept up the distasteful commentary he indulged in whilst the man was lying in intensive care.

Well then you are projecting because nothing I said could be construed as that.

I don't believe in capital punishment no matter who you are.

But the rise in political violence at the current moment in time is being pushed and encouraged by Trump and his supporters and it doesn't look as though they will be doing anything to reverse that trend any time soon.