Women’s privacy and dignity

[Mrspenguinsschoolforfreaks]

I’ve just been to my local leisure centre swimming pool and while I was in the changing rooms a woman walked in from the showers, fully naked. I averted my eyes, and she walked quite close past me in a way which to me (and I fully accept I may well have imagined it) felt a bit pointed. I felt vaguely uncomfortable and embarrassed in the same way I would have if a man had walked in naked.

My impression is that the vast majority of people on this forum believe that it is a fundamental breach of women’s privacy and dignity if people with male biology (whether cisgender men or trans women) share changing facilities with women. Yet they do not consider that it undermines a woman’s privacy or dignity to have to get changed in front of other women, or to see other women naked.

I understand that many women have had experiences with men’s exhibitionist or voyeuristic behaviour which makes them specifically uncomfortable being undressed around men, or being around men who are undressed. But I’ve often seen the argument on here that it equally undermines men’s privacy and dignity to have to share changing facilities with women.

So my question is, do you think privacy and dignity are not infringed by having to get changed in front of people of the same sex? If not, why not?

And the other 2% were confused.

Arguably the harm is the point.

Women in the UK have rights

This is where the disconnect is for @Howseitgoin

If you arent on board with that bit, nothing else makes sense

It's pretty obvious what type of 'debate' you're interested in.

"In any case, just showing that a group of male people experience hate crimes which may include physical violence is actually irrelevant to their accessing female single sex spaces."

It's relevant because trans women aren't a risk to women as you have not been able to provide evidence that they are.

me?

You really need to post the time stamp of the post you are referring to, please.

Because simply saying 'I am waiting' after someone has ask what the fuck you are waiting for and asked for clarity is actually just coming over as harassment now.

And stats:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/breakdown_of_offences_committed

In the HMPPS Offender Equalities Annual Report 2021/22, table 2.1 lists the total number of transgender prisoners held as part of the prisoner population in England & Wales.
Specifically for the March 31st 2021 dataset:
Of the 207 transgender prisoners recorded
10 persons had a GRC
197 had no GRC
Of the 197 persons with no GRC 97 (49%) were serving time for sex crimes

You can check for FOIs for later years yourself.

Trans women are men.

Men are a risk to women.

and in the U.K. (and this is predominantly a U.K. site) they aren’t allowed in to women’s single sex spaces.

I say no.

Would you over ride my no? And come in anyway?

Wrong. I provided evidence that as males, transwomen are a risk to women and far greater than every other male. I can repeat the images as many times as you want if you are going to keep lying and lying and lying.

It's not relevant.

Why would women have to accept ANY kind of man in their spaces? They are women's spaces.

@Mrspenguinsschoolforfreaks I hope you can see the difference in the argument between myself and @Howseitgoin. We have had several threads like this. I am up for the debate in order to find practical solutions but it’s difficult when they have nothing new to give. It’s frustrating but it does allow others to see what’s going on.

I am so sorry this happened to you Taztoy. There are no words that any of us can say to provide comfort directly. Please don't feel that you need to share the details of your trauma to justify what you are rightfully asking for.

There should be no need for any woman or girl to have to post such details for their voices to be listened to.

Apart from the evidence that some of them have been convicted of raping and sexually assaulting women?

Thank you.

I think it’s important that I speak up. I have had lots of counselling and support but being in a space behind a door where I become aware of a man on the other side of the door is traumatic for me.

I am legally allowed to say no to men in single sex women’s spaces.

and it says a lot about anyone who won’t accept my no.

I mean. That I speak up for those who can’t. Who aren’t as far along in their journey or are so traumatised they can’t speak.

Males commit 99% of sexual assaults. There is no argument that you have attempted to make that in any way can skew this very simple, very straightforward figure.

Transwomen are male. Transwomen are men.

I'll help you out.

What you'd need to do to convince anyone differently is explain HOW a man's 'gender identity' changes his sex. Go for it.

Which police data are you now referring to?

You have posted heaps of data. If you cannot be clear about what it is that you are referring to, you are then just creating a situation where you can act abusively and harass posters for them not discussing what you are referring to.

Do you really want to continue in this abusive style?

As much a risk as lesbians are who have been convicted.

see where this is going?

There are long lists of transwomen who have harmed women.

What part of "no lesbian has ever committed rape" are you struggling with?

It's very plain where this is 'going'.

Absolutely nowhere. You have the debating skills of a preteen.

So. Again. In the U.K. I’m allowed to say no to a man in a single sex women’s space.

And you would ignore that law? And my no? And you don’t see that as a consent violation?

Might help if you follow the thread in which it was stated all male bodied people don't offend at the same rate. IE young V old black V white Poor V rich etc. Sub groups vary in factors that influence offending.

'it was stated'

Passively attributed assertions are meaningless, mate.

Lesbians are women and belong in women’s spaces

men are men and do not belong in women’s spaces, even (especially) if they really want to be there

and in the UK, the law says so

prove me wrong