Women’s privacy and dignity

[Mrspenguinsschoolforfreaks]

I’ve just been to my local leisure centre swimming pool and while I was in the changing rooms a woman walked in from the showers, fully naked. I averted my eyes, and she walked quite close past me in a way which to me (and I fully accept I may well have imagined it) felt a bit pointed. I felt vaguely uncomfortable and embarrassed in the same way I would have if a man had walked in naked.

My impression is that the vast majority of people on this forum believe that it is a fundamental breach of women’s privacy and dignity if people with male biology (whether cisgender men or trans women) share changing facilities with women. Yet they do not consider that it undermines a woman’s privacy or dignity to have to get changed in front of other women, or to see other women naked.

I understand that many women have had experiences with men’s exhibitionist or voyeuristic behaviour which makes them specifically uncomfortable being undressed around men, or being around men who are undressed. But I’ve often seen the argument on here that it equally undermines men’s privacy and dignity to have to share changing facilities with women.

So my question is, do you think privacy and dignity are not infringed by having to get changed in front of people of the same sex? If not, why not?

It doesn't say much for your arguments or Google skills that you keep banging on about out of date data. These are the most recent data for year ending March 2024 that amongst other things show a fall in reported transgender hate crimes.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-year-ending-march-2024

Still waiting…

It is. Go to the source. It's legit.

Unlike the mens rights pro-predatorial rubbish you post.

I say no. As I’m legally allowed to. As per the SC ruling.

Why wont you answer me? Men continuing to come into women’s single sex spaces in defiance of that ruling and my no is a consent violation.

Quite.

@Mrspenguinsschoolforfreaks Thank you for reading my posts. If you followed the links and research you would come to the same conclusion, however uncomfortable that can be at times. The safest toilet design is a single sex design with door gaps. It saves lives and prevents assaults.

You say in another post you don’t know how it could work practically if toilets were by gender. That’s what I have been researching. This graphic shows the practical reality of the difference in design.

I have tried to engage with lots of people on how to practically work out a solution. I want a debate. You started this thread about privacy. The cubicles on the right of the picture show complete privacy because that’s the toilet design when the area in front of the toilet cubicle or room is mixed sex.

The two children in this diagram could be of any gender.

@Howseitgoin has never replied to me on this image, despite me asking repeatedly. Perhaps you could give me your thoughts?

Me: What's the difference in lesbian violence to trans woman violence?

You: The law in the UK (who cares elsewhere) says blah blah blah

And the logical fallacies keep coming…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

I say no. I say no to men in a single sex women's space.

To enter in defiance of that is a consent violation.

why don’t you accept my no?

And yet, you keep posting the Williams Institute press release!

One that used data from a survey where only 0.08% of the respondents reported that they were transgender and yet you confidently keep posting this statement from the Williams Institute:

”Transgender people are over four times more likely than cisgender people to experience violent victimization, including rape, sexual assault, and aggravated or simple assault”

Notice the 'including'. This figure also included property victimisation.

So, the word 'violent' has also been misused by the Williams Institute.

You get this is a global forum right? Oh wait…

As a rape and SA victim who had a man burst through a door to strangle and rape me I say no.

and that’s your reply?

Tells me something about you.

Ireland only allows men who have a GRC to access women single sex spaces

5 Star review of the GRC system is that women give up all sex based rights and the State must pretend they are males.

3 of the 500 (est.) males with a GRC have already been to prison
1 CSA offender who only produced his GRC in conviction
1 violent bar brawler
1 legal sane per court ruling as sane people can want to stab ones mother to death and rape her as she is bleeding to death

Any trans IDing male without a GRC must use male toilets and gets sent to the Mens Prison system

Can you link us to an example of a lesbian being caught sexually assaulting someone in a women's toilet?

Lesbians are female and a member of the oppressed sex class.

Transwomen are MALE and are a member of the predator and oppressor sex class.

HTH

If you're not UK based then why do you care about the fact that women in the UK have rights that women in your country don't have?

Why don't you just leave us the fuck alone and carry on oppressing women in your country?

Lesbians can't commit rape, unlike trans women.

Lesbians actually are women and so do not have any other spaces specifically designated for members of their own sex, unlike trans women.

There are two major differences for you.

I also posted UK Police data. Are you disputing that or avoiding it still?

And it doesn't do your credibility any good muddying the waters between numbers of convictions (very small) to numbers of hate crimes VERY LARGE.

Lesbians are women, so of course it is five for them to be in women's spaces.

This is not difficult @Howseitgoin

I didn't use the terms 'rape' you did. And it's estimated around 2%.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/18/ons-survey-finds-one-in-14-women-have-been-victim-of#:~:text=The%20figure%20has%20hovered%20between,9%25%20to%20a%20family%20member.&text=Women%20were%20more%20likely%20to,report%20in%20the%20late%20spring.

You get this is a discussion/debate forum & not a propagandist support site right? Oh wait…

Rape is the most serious form of sexual assault, and men (a category which includes trans women) commit 100% of them.

Not sure what you are referring to when you mention 2%. What is 2%?

Including the Super straight gender

What is there to discuss?

Women in the UK have rights, granted to us in law by our democratically elected parliament, and upheld by our Supreme Court.

If UK based male supremacists trans activists have a problem with that, they need to campaign to remove our rights, following the correct democratic process. This means they need to write to their MPs and convince them that erasing female people in law should be high on the legislative agenda.

But it has got absolutely fuck all to do with you because you don't have an MP, you don't vote in our elections, and you need to mind your own business and keep your nose out of our democracy.

From the link:

"In the last three years of recorded data, 98% of rape victims said the perpetrator was male."

So... what is it that you are trying to say here? That because a group of people has hate crimes targeting them, they should be able to access female single sex spaces?

While fucking ignoring that if misogyny was a hate crime, it would overwhelm these statistics. What then? Do we have to wait for misogyny to be a hate crime so that female people can finally be able to have provisions that exclude male people? Really?

In any case, just showing that a group of male people experience hate crimes which may include physical violence is actually irrelevant to their accessing female single sex spaces.

It is an argument that they might require action to reduce these crimes against them.

It is not an argument that they should be accessing female single sex spaces when they are male people.

So you admit there's no evidence of danger to women transwomen? Well done!

FALSE! or is this a COMPREHENSION FAIL. Isn't that what you post, followed by emojis? Or have you now realised that this ends up being harassment and abusive after we have repeatedly pointed it out?

Either way, this is not what I said at all.

I was pointing out that you are using largely irrelevant data that has no symmetrical data being collected for female people. I am not saying at all that there is no evidence of danger to female people from male people who claim to have a transgender identity.

There is numerous reported instances of rapes and other sexual abuses of female people who should have been safe in female single sex spaces in the UK and were not. This makes your claim of So you admit there's no evidence of danger to women transwomen? Well done! ridiculous.

Two girls attacked by Dolatowski is an obvious one. Or.... are those girls 'statistically insignificant'?