Posting upton’s old photos and name on twitter

[Biggadyboom]

Look I’ve been in these discussions since before this forum existed. You don’t need to break it down for me. I peaked in 2018.

But the endless sharing of upton’s name accompanied by photos and horrible comments about him and his wife is not nice. It is totally is transphobia. It’s horrible.

I could kind of understand the point of it, if it was just the name being shared.

But equally the court has ruled that Upton has a right to privacy. I thought it was all about respecting court’s rulings?

but the sharing of private photos (presumably grabbed from social media) and especially their wedding photo with insults to both of them and speculation about their marriage is awful and will not help their be a resolution to this debate. It polarises it even more and is transphobia.

fair enough, don’t let Upton change the rules of the country and workplace based on personal beliefs . But that doesn’t involve posting personal information and photos , insults and horrible speculation.

or are we just going low now?

Could you please link us to X so that we might know what you are referring to.

the XTwitter I see is almost all books and gardens and history and archaeology and pets and food and pleasant chat. You don't have to see nasty stuff. There's the odd dodgy ad, but that's true everywhere online, and if you ignore them they eventually go away.

While obviously not agreeing with any insults or family members being dragged in, and not being on twitter, I think photos from the time he started using the changing room are fair game.

It is disingenuous for the news to only show a head and shoulders recent photo of him, where he looks a bit feminine and you can't see his size or the context. That leads to the idea that you wouldn't know it was a man unless someone told you, that SP cares about what's in his pants, is gossiping etc.

The fact he was very clearly and obviously a man should be part of the narrative. His size and look could realistically be seen as intimidating. That's part of the case, the obvious-ness that this is a man in the wrong place.

It comes under "play silly games, win silly prizes," for me with a side helping of how toxic Twitter is in general.

someone asked what I consider transphobia

https://x.com/TheParty1sOver/status/1962595945188622435

this thread is the one that particularly stopped me in my tracks. Has the pervert and enabler comment. Also stuff about him skinwalking his wife , being creepy, making people retch and « degenerate absolute brain dead moronic fuckwit«

I do think it’s transphobic. I don’t think saying that a trans woman is a man is transphobic and I am very glad that that has changed. I remember when misgenderubg would get you deleted and warned in this forum. But I do think that saying a transwoman is a pervert, skin walker and creepy is transphobic especially underneath a wedding photo mainly showing his non binary wife (so by their definition also trans) and calling her a degenerate absolute brain dead moronic fuckwit and an enabler. To me it crosses the threshold into hate because they are trans.

again, not saying any of you personally posted these things, and apologies again for the assumption that there is a crossover.

thank you to those thoughtfully adding to a discussion

where he looks a bit feminine bald

I get lots of bird photos because I follow a dude called CarlBovis. He takes good pics. Like his puffins.

Upton got his medical registration changed to reflect his new gender, without having gone to all the faff of waiting for two years and applying for a GRC. Here is a man who is happy to throw demented pensioners who misgender him and women experiencing a menopausal flood under the bus but heaven help anyone who dares to question his choices about his ‘privacy’.

Given that he would provide care to women who asked for a female clinician, I don't care. I would go as far as saying it is important for any potential future patients to be aware of what the man pretending to be a woman looks like.

The day Upton chose to use those changing rooms was the day he needed to understand actions have consequences.

I do however have some empathy for his parents and his wife who married a man.

I’m conflicted on this (the principal of taking the high road on Upton on SM). I don’t like the whole shaming thing on SM. It feels a little cruel and unnecessary.

But… I don’t have a lot of sympathy for him, given what’s come out during the tribunal. It’s pretty obvious that he not only stirred up shit for SP (helped by a large party of willing enablers) but appears to have been quite happy to make accusations up about her professionalism and practice.

I can think of many friends and acquaintances who’d have crumbled under the pressure Sandie was put under. A lot of people wouldn’t have stood up to all that shit and would have walked away and/or been railroaded through the ‘process’ and been sacked. In probably 90/100 instances, Upton would have got what he wanted and the targeted person would have been screwed.

So in that respect, he deserves (almost) anything he gets. Perhaps it’ll prove to be a teaching moment for others that would seek to emulate his actions. We can live in hope.

You still have not answered my question. You object to pervert and enabler being used, please answer my question below.

"So what word do you use to define men who watch nonconsenting women undress knowing full well they are uncomfortable with it? What word do you use to describe men like this who try to get women fired for complaining about undressing in front of them? What word do you use to describe those that support this behaviour?"

So if he wasn’t trans you’d be ok with people calling him that? If not, why not?

I'm with you @Biggadyboom (and I've been sceptical of TWAW etc etc since forever, certainly when Prof. Greer objected to a man winning a Fellowship at Newnham College).

I know I'm not transphobic: I've had (GRC) trans colleagues & a relative transition - whatever makes them happy, is my view on private individuals. My beef is about the TRAs attempt to radically restructure society and undermine the fundamental definition of what it is to be a woman.

But I have noticed that since the TRAs really ramped up the attack on women's rights, (particularly feminists' arguments & rights to speak) that I have been far less accepting of all the random TW and TM I encounter. I am privately quite scathing of them, and am starting to notice a certain sort of old fogeyism about "the young people" the "blue haireds" and so on. I don't like this about myself, although I'd defend myself by saying it's a pretty human response to a bullying misogynistic category of people.

I work in a very captured area of a generally captured profession, so I try to check myself and relax about individuals just living their lives, as long as they're not trying to stop me or blocking my rights. My main concern is that gender extremist ideology is trying to change everyone's views & rights, not just advocate for stopping the bigotry around transvestites.

I know (and I've had this discussion with a number of feminists whom I admire greatly - such as Sheila Jeffreys) that the use of 'womanface' is a playing out of a sexual fetish & requires us to participate, but I can resist that in daily life. a trans-identified man can't control my opinion of or thoughts about him.

But I do think that we need not to stoop to the "ugly woman is a man' trope that TRAs use. We shouldn't stoop to personalise the battle - we need to be very clear that we're fighting for structural, general rights, not the bullying of individuals.

That said Dr Upton sounds like a pretty repulsive selfish man ...

oops double posted. Apols

I have followed this case in social media via Mumsnet only. Nowhere else. Only in this thread, today, have I heard for the very first time what Dr Upton's first name was at birth. I did not wish to know this, and will.continue to avoid this media, particularly in relation to Dr. Upton's spouse. I don't think the call is coming from inside this building.

Isn't that the truth?

No, Upton O'Good's wife should not be brought into this. No, publishing photos from his SM is not okay. No, his bullying of a female colleague who dared to say 'no' - putting her through a protracted character assassination and attempting to end her career - is very definitely not okay. Relentless bullying whilst you cry that you are the victim is devious, manipulative and does not meet the standard of integrity required of a medical profession. Nor does outright lying in court.

I doubt you are going to find much sympathy with your little scolding here, OP. This noise is getting hold and women have had it dinged in our ears for over a decade. Go and take issue with the forum where this material is actually being posted, rather than deciding the nearest available women must be to blame. Women (and Mumsnet) are not responsible for what others do, say, and write on the internet. And we are sick and tired of being made scapegoats for others' behaviour.

It's also a truism that amid all the concern over transphobia, no one apparently gives a shiny shit about misogyny. One is apparently worthy of hate speech legislation. The other isn't. As ever, women are viewed as the lesser humans.

Any further comment as to what I really think about this cowardly, disingenuous post would break talk guidelines. Suffice it to say, no wonder so many of us are sick to the back teeth of this shit.

She wants to accuse members of this board of being responsible for "hate" posted towards Theodore Upton on a completely different site then she can damn well be included in her own accusation.

Is that transphobic per se, rather than just the same kind of harassing behavior anyone who is an even slightly controversial public figure, for any reason, receives?

I too would like to know @Biggadyboom- what word should be used for a man for trues to force women to undress in front of him or perform intimate examinations on female patients without their consent, or putting the onus on the patient in a very vulnerable position to challenge whrn they’d already expressed female only care or weren’t able to consent due to illness?

What word should be chosen? In your view…

Go and take issue with the forum where this material is actually being posted, rather than deciding the nearest available women must be to blame. Women (and Mumsnet) are not responsible for what others do, say, and write on the internet. And we are sick and tired of being made scapegoats for others' behaviour.

It's also a truism that amid all the concern over transphobia, no one apparently gives a shiny shit about misogyny. One is apparently worthy of hate speech legislation. The other isn't. As ever, women are viewed as the lesser humans.

👏👏👏

Well he is a pervert based on his perverted behaviour and she appears to be an enabler. Failing
to see why calling this out is deemed ‘transphobic’.

@Biggadyboom Do you realise that those of us not on twitter cant read replies to posts? So the horrors you are complaining about are not visible to us?

I'm not on X because I regard it as a bit of a cesspit. You clearly are so if you see hateful comments respond to them saying that.

At the start of this case there was some sympathy for Upton on mumsnet. What this case has revealed about the actions of his employer, his actions in the witness box and the "contemporaneous" notes that were anything but, the behaviour of his defence team have all reduced sympathy for this one person. When you start equating that with transphobia then you look like yet another trans activist pretending to be gender critical.

I doubt you are going to find much sympathy with your little scolding here, OP. This noise is getting hold and women have had it dinged in our ears for over a decade. Go and take issue with the forum where this material is actually being posted, rather than deciding the nearest available women must be to blame. Women (and Mumsnet) are not responsible for what others do, say, and write on the internet. And we are sick and tired of being made scapegoats for others' behaviour.

Fair points, and well made - women are not responsible for every nasty thing said about men like Dr Upton.

But I can understand why @Biggadyboom posted here. She's been a regular poster for over 20 years - it'll feel like 'home' where she can discuss difficult topics with other thoughtful women.

Which you can't do on X at the moment!

And it's really OK for women to disagree with each other, without it being seen as "scolding" or "scapegoating." We need to be better at disagreeing with each other and it not being personal (I'm working on this myself - it's hard sometimes).

"So what word do you use to define men who watch nonconsenting women undress knowing full well they are uncomfortable with it? What word do you use to describe men like this who try to get women fired for complaining about undressing in front of them? What word do you use to describe those that support this behaviour?"

It depends on what you assume to be Upton’s reasons for acting the way he did. You can interpret it in the way you did and decide that pervert and enabler are simply descriptive terms for your interpretation of upton’s and his wive’s behaviour. But that would involve thinking that Upton knows he is male, is using the female changing room in order to make women uncomfortable as they undress.

That may be possible Ofcourse, and in some cases that would be true. There are Ofcourse some men who pretend to be trans in order to have power over and access to women in a vulnerable state. Which is why single sex spaces should absolutely be protected and why self ID is absolutely a dreadful idea. There should be safe guarding, there should be checks and balances, single sex spaces should be protected.

but if you assume (like I do) that there is a likliehoiod that Upton is a person with genuine gender dysphoria, who thinks they are a woman and that has been encouraged and supported by the pro trans lobby ( in hud fucking Government, media, workplace , marriage no less to believe he is a victim) and was/is acting the way he is because he is fully within that version of reality. He is Therefore using the changing room because told to use it and feeling victimised because he has been supported in his belief that he is,

so not pervert and enabler .

person who believes he is a woman and his wife who also believes the same thing.

i believe that the laws of the country shouldn’t be changed around their believes, I believe that women shouldn’t be hounded for not believing the same as them, I believe that it’s should be possible to discuss it and find a way forward. But i don’t assume every person claiming a trans indentity is perverted

Precisely this. If what the PP is complaining about is that all trans identified males are perverts, including young, autistic people with dysphoria, then yes, there might be some mileage in that accusation. This particualar individual has thrown a strop because a woman refused to undress in front of him, has used every institutional and legal mechanism in the book to force her to capitulate, and is saying he will override female patients' consent when they request female-only care.

Not sure what else this looks like to the PP, but if it waddles, swims and quacks like a duck then it might be a duck.

I think it’s very unwise to ‘assume’ a crossover. Making that assumption comes across as a disingenuous lead into assigning blame. And I don’t think that’s a useful way to start a conversation.

I don’t think it’s right for people to post photos of Upton with derogatory captions underneath. But that’s the internet for you. I’m not concerned about the repercussions because there is no point in being concerned. The internet is like a runaway train when it comes to personal attacks/revelations etc. And there will always be people who go to extremes. Also, even if Upton had been successful in retaining anonymity during the trial, SOMEONE would have outed him. So even if it means that future requests for anonymity are more likely to be successful, we’re all going to find out the person’s identity in the end. There are no secrets anymore.

Also, I don’t give a shiny shit that (not very) old photos of Upton have been uploaded to the internet. I don’t agree. But I still don’t care.