Posting upton’s old photos and name on twitter

[Biggadyboom]

Look I’ve been in these discussions since before this forum existed. You don’t need to break it down for me. I peaked in 2018.

But the endless sharing of upton’s name accompanied by photos and horrible comments about him and his wife is not nice. It is totally is transphobia. It’s horrible.

I could kind of understand the point of it, if it was just the name being shared.

But equally the court has ruled that Upton has a right to privacy. I thought it was all about respecting court’s rulings?

but the sharing of private photos (presumably grabbed from social media) and especially their wedding photo with insults to both of them and speculation about their marriage is awful and will not help their be a resolution to this debate. It polarises it even more and is transphobia.

fair enough, don’t let Upton change the rules of the country and workplace based on personal beliefs . But that doesn’t involve posting personal information and photos , insults and horrible speculation.

or are we just going low now?

Trans people can't erase history. It doesn't matter that he now identifies as a woman and has changed his name. He used to have a different name, he used to look different.

Do divorced people have the right to remove all wedding photos from the global internet?

Do married women kick off if someone ever finds out their maiden name (presuming that they changed it)?

Do people who have lost weight/ sorted their teeth our or had a boob job have the right to remove all pics of previous lives from their friends social media?

They are being a bit delicate to be honest. It's tye truth. That's his name at birth and that's what he looked like. He can ask for what he wants to be called now, but he can't change the past or erase history. Especially as some of that is shared history. It was her wedding day too. His parents chose his name. He can't demand the world changes everything for him just as he can't deny he has a Y chromosome and was born with a penis

I agree with OP - but I can't stand all the name-calling and bullshit that makes up most of Twitter anyway - I'm interested in what's right and what is going to improve things for women, and arsey behaviour doesn't really sit well with that, for me.

And I also agree with pp that MN posters shouldn't be blamed for what's on Twitter! But I don't think a discussion about it is necessarily a bad thing.

Given what he’s put Sandie Peggie through & his behaviour during the tribunal I have zero sympathy for him.

He was quite happy to be seen and photographed whilst dressing up as & pretending to be a woman.

With the constant gaslighting & BeKind nonsense, aimed mainly at women, I think it’s always useful to starkly remind people that these ‘trans women’ are not women in any way. They’re men, so their wedding photos with them standing next to their wives are a fair reminder of material reality.

It’s not transphobic to remind people that a man is a man. In this case a man who kept notes on women, and who refused to leave a female only locker room despite the request from a distressed female.

If he feels upset? Good. Welcome to the feelings of women when men decide to invade their spaces.

I spent a few minutes scrolling through the top #TheoUpton posts on X.

Saw precisely one picture of his wife, the majority of the commentary wondering how she feels. A minority were the 'silly girl tried to be edgy by going NB and now look what's happened'.

Not one mention of his parents.

Many many (very funny, sorrynotsorry) songs.

A few pictures, making the point that he is very obviously a man, can't possibly really think otherwise unless he's a really, REALLY shit doctor, and therefore the motivation for getting into women's facilities is doubtful.

In a legal sense, I'd say this all falls under fair comment. Not saying there isn't cruel commentary etc, but the stuff catching on is mostly a pisstake.

It's not nice and it's not kind, but - and here's the other important consideration - if young Theo hadn't revealed himself to be such a condescending, repellent, entitled dickhead in court, I don't believe this would be happening.

Upton and Fife turned this case into the shit show it is with lies, spite and incompetence. They are now reaping what they sowed.

I'm not joining in, but I'm not going to insist on the moral high ground either. Fuck it. Maybe the next useless bunch of twats will think again.

In addition, hashtagging a man who was planning to sexually assault female patients (forcing consent or consent via deception) is NOT transphobia.

Calling out and hashtagging a man simply and respectfully going about his every day life in his Milano Blahniks IS transphobia.

Do you see the difference OP?

Why isn't it possible to discuss it on Twitter? If it's because a direct message to the people doing this would result in abuse and personal attack then you can be 100% sure that there is no crossover with the women of mumsnet. If you think it's possible to have a reasonable discussion about it without it descending into abuse and personal attack (which is what you could get here if you didn't start off with accusations and if the relevant people were on here) then that conversation can equally and more relevantly happen on Twitter.

The whole concept of "privacy" for transwomen needs rethinking. The existing laws are nuilt on the fantasy that a transwoman can successfully mimic a biological woman so well that no reasonable woman would perceive any difference if they weren't told, or have any kind of objection to sharing intimate/vulnerable spaces with them even if they knew, such that the information that a person is trans is as irrelevant to others as any other piece of private medical information. This fantasy is so blatantly untrue that it's ridiculous to have any regulations based on it. The facts are that it simply doesn't happen that transwomen "pass" that well for more than a fleeting glance so the information is no more secret than the shape of your nose, and indeed the majority don't want it to be a secret because they welcome being known as part a sacred caste who can't be questioned, and it's well established that many women have entirely valid, legitimate reasons to object to sharing intimate/vulnerable spaces with male people.

I agree with you that it's rude and unkind to refer to Upton by the old name beginning with T but no one should be obliged to use the name Beth if that feels like lying to them. I agree that it is rude and unkind to post old photos of anyone. But trying to use "privacy" laws to prevent people from talking about information that is in the public domain and is immediately relevant to serious issues of public concern is wrong. The fact that Upton is male is 100% relevant and important.

Twitter is not a forum where anyone gets universally referred to with the respect and dignity which anyone should be entitled to in civilised discourse. Upton doesn't get a free pass to get additional respect and dignity that isn't afforded to e.g. JKRowling, Sarah Philamore or other well known champions of Women's Rights.

This is my worry, too - we only know it's "bad" to mention his old name etc because (after some arguing) observers were allowed. This is potentially a threat to that in future cases. I dont think he should be granted anonymity, for all the reasons more eloquent people have laid out, but I am afraid we are playing into the hands of people who would rather the doors were kept closed.

@Biggadyboom calling them « pervert and enabler » under their wedding photo is transphobia.

Well, this is some illogical, hyperbolic nonsense. Calling a man an abuser because he is an abuser is not "transphobia". The anger and distaste for Upton evident on SM is not because he identifies as trans. It's* *because gets his rocks off hanging out in the women's changing room and then tries to destroy the life of anyone who doesn't comply with his fetish. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a fucking duck, albeit one in a designer dress, heels and makeup.

i think it plays into the narrative that terfs are transphobic.

You've provided zero evidence that anyone here has posted photos of Upton captioned 'pervert' on X [or 'Twitter' as you call it], so why would you claim it 'plays into the narrative that terfs are transphobic'?

That's not very logical, but then again, a total lack of logic underlies a lot of the 'terfs are transphobic because we say so' stuff.

Many posters have declared they are not on Twitter/X - in my case, I have never been on it at all, ever, so I go along with other posters in suggesting that you take up your complaint on X, and leave us out of it.

I agree. I’m on X, I follow many GC accounts - I’ve not yet seen anything that could be deemed as ‘transphobic’ nor have I seen pictures of his wife (and I don’t agree with her being dragged into it)

Ivd seen some pretty amusing songs, and a pretty good Bond film poster adaptation.

#sorrynotsorry

Upton is in his twenties and well educated. His generation has grown up with social media, and should know the consequences of images posted in public. He may think he is in control, by declaring to the world he's a biological female, but he cannot self-identify away social media evidence. It's like politicians blustering sulkily about the stupid drunken shit they posted online years before they stood for parliament. Reality will catch up with you at some point.

For the record, I am another poster who is not, nor ever has been, on Twitter.

You’re just being silly now.

If you wanted to discuss what you see as bad behaviour on X, how come you never mentioned X in your original post? When you wrote "or are we just going low now?", why did you use the word "we" if you didn’t mean MN readers/contributors?

it’ll peak people in the opposite direction

It certainly wont do that, the discussions on Twitter will just highlight to more people the ridiculousness of Upton claiming he is a woman. Your sentence above suggests to me you are invoking 'no debate' under different terms. Upton had no qualms about bullying a woman in a position of less power to him and trying to ruin her reputation and livelihood, so has no recourse when some bigger bullies start on him - call it karma in action if you like.

They’re assholes. There’s assholes on both sides and they discredit themselves and to some extent derail their cause.

So go tell those on Twitter. Don’t just tell us, do something about it. Go tell the meanies on Twitter and Reddit. Cos if you’re gonna scold people for meanness to a man, you should go tell people off for meanness to women for equality. Otherwise it looks like you’re just coming here because you think we are somehow responsible for Twitter?

There's still a wide-spread belief that TW are convincingly female in appearance so it's helpful to put photos out there to correct that impression. We've all seen the doctored online images of the attractive TW and then we see the reality.

This is especially important in law making & the judicial process as it can sway decisions. The judge in Corbett vs Corbett in the early 70s said of the person known as April Ashley (one of the Corbetts in question) was convincing as a woman initially but this later turned into a very good female impersonation. So it's important to see people in real life & photos are persuasive.

No, I have not posted anything about Upton on X.

I've been to have a look and the only thing I could find about his parents is that his Dad is a lecturer at Edinburgh University and works with Grant Buttars - who was part of getting the Adult Human Female screening banned.

Well why don't you stop posting transphobic hate towards Theodore Upton then?

Ah, once again it seems facts are hateful and transphobic

Calling a man who behaves in a perverted way (voyeurism and exihitionism) a pervert is accurate. One of John Money's crimes was introducing the weasel word 'paraphilia' to replace the long-standing and generally understood 'perversion'.

?

I agree that his wife and parents should not be targeted (though I think it’s perfectly natural to speculate about his wife) but I find it hard to care about the hurt feelings of a man who openly said that he regards himself as female so would attend a sexual assault victim who had requested to be treated only by females.

He's the one who started all this and has shown that he cares nothing for the feelings of others - even though he was given permission to use the women's changing room, if he had any empathy at all with women he would have stopped using it when a woman made it clear to him that she found his presence there distressing.

He is interested only in himself and his own wishes and his desire to be validated by others as a woman, and I don’t see why everyone else should have to respect his wishes to have it all his own way.

It's not as if everyone doesn’t already know his birth name and sex. He just wanted to make a point by his birth name not being used in the documentation, and posters on X are responding by making the opposite point. The (in any sane universe) undeniable fact of him being male is the crux of the whole issue.

Also, the OP hasn’t actually produced any links to where people are calling him a pervert on here, or anywhere else, and until they do, I choose to not believe it.

I had a look on X expecting to find some unflattering pics like when they post photos of famous people before their glow up. Everybody has photos that they’d prefer the world wouldn’t see but these weren’t bad at all. We all know that you can’t control the internet and that deleting his own photos wasn’t going to erase his past.

I also think that pervert is a reference to what he did and wanted to continue doing rather than his trans status. It is reasonable to call him a pervert.