Page 10 | Posting upton’s old photos and name on twitter

Snorlaxo · 02/09/2025 13:38

Do you object to people posting any past photos or is it just trans people? For example I think it’s fine for people to post pics of a famous person before and after plastic surgery regardless whether the results are better or not and I think it’s great when people post photos of celebs pre and post airbrushing.

He lived as a man-fact. There will be people who loved him and had good memories of him pre transition. Are they supposed to act like it all never happened?

It is transphobic to say that all trans people are perverts but it is not transphobic to say that the transwoman in this case is a pervert. You do all trans people a disservice pretending that their bad behaviour is acceptable- there are many who will know that their presence isn’t welcome in women’s spaces and adjust their behaviour accordingly.

TheKeatingFive · 02/09/2025 13:39

Biggadyboom · 02/09/2025 13:33

yeah wish I had said that.

it was in good faith.

good bye x

(name change ahoy! ;-) )

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I mean, you said it more than once.

To be clear

QuiteaLongRoad · 02/09/2025 13:41

Is it even women who are posting this on X?

The case has been all over the tabloids and the photos have been around for a while.

Are they standing up for women's rights or just being nasty? Might be TERFs but seems unlikely.

I guess the Upton's are just avoiding social media, you know it's going to get nasty if you are in a court case or public eye.

DabOfPistachio · 02/09/2025 13:43

There is definitely a line crossed in that Upton's wife and parents should not be included and abuse is crossing the line.
But photos of Upton are very, very relevant.
This is not a just some poor theoretical trans woman trying to 'just let us pee'.
It is a male person who deliberately targeted a female nurse, getting her suspended, because she objected to undressing in front of him. His justification for this is claiming that 'he' is actually a 'she'.
And of course, this is a case of enormous public interest to every woman in this country. If Upton's claim to be a woman is somehow accepted and Sandie loses the case, it sets a precedent for any man to do the same to any other woman without consequences.
Bearded images of Upton make his attempts at obfuscation very clear.
I would never comment 'perv' or anything else like that but these kind of comments are something that you see on any other media report of men accused of behaving inappropriately around women.
We could have a discussion around unpleasant social media comments on men behaving badly but Upton is not a special case because he has grown his hair out and changed his name. I don't see why he should be treated as one.

ThatCyanCat · 02/09/2025 13:45

Biggadyboom · 02/09/2025 13:33

yeah wish I had said that.

it was in good faith.

good bye x

(name change ahoy! ;-) )

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Well that being the case then, can I ask why you didn't say that? You repeated the "crossover" stuff several times, it wasn't just one miscommunication, and you weren't having it when people said it was nothing to do with them (childish, really?). Then you even tried to pull a load of stuff out of context (and misrepresented it) to do a "see, I was right, you guys are doing it". You consistently tried to paint the women on here as responsible for an X hashtag campaign. Did you yourself not realise you were doing it?

You also never answered the question of what language women should be able to use to describe a man using their changing rooms with no regard for their consent, or announcing his readiness to attend a female patient who specified that she wanted female care.

PolkaDotPorridge · 02/09/2025 13:48

ThePinkPoster · 02/09/2025 08:42

This. I could not give a tiny shit about how that disgusting man or his wife feel.

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This in buckets! OP, this is ridiculous 🤣

AnSolas · 02/09/2025 13:51

Biggadyboom · 02/09/2025 08:22

Look I’ve been in these discussions since before this forum existed. You don’t need to break it down for me. I peaked in 2018.

But the endless sharing of upton’s name accompanied by photos and horrible comments about him and his wife is not nice. It is totally is transphobia. It’s horrible.

I could kind of understand the point of it, if it was just the name being shared.

But equally the court has ruled that Upton has a right to privacy. I thought it was all about respecting court’s rulings?

but the sharing of private photos (presumably grabbed from social media) and especially their wedding photo with insults to both of them and speculation about their marriage is awful and will not help their be a resolution to this debate. It polarises it even more and is transphobia.

fair enough, don’t let Upton change the rules of the country and workplace based on personal beliefs . But that doesn’t involve posting personal information and photos , insults and horrible speculation.

or are we just going low now?

You peaked and yet here your are on MN scolding women for transphobia with no examples

But the endless sharing of upton’s name accompanied by photos and horrible comments about him and his wife is not nice. It is totally is transphobia. It’s horrible.

How many posts have you reported for doing this and how posts were removed by MNHQ?

What right to privacy are you claiming below?

But equally the court has ruled that Upton has a right to privacy. I thought it was all about respecting court’s rulings?

Upton had no obligation to join his employer in Court to defend/justify the abuse which has been proven vis witness statements.

He did not even have to turn up as a witness unless the Court ordered it.

He choose to attend Court and join the Respondents side.

but the sharing of private photos (presumably grabbed from social media) and especially their wedding photo with insults to both of them and speculation about their marriage is awful and will not help their be a resolution to this debate. It polarises it even more and is transphobia.

How many posts have you reported for doing this and how posts were removed by MNHQ?

fair enough, don’t let Upton change the rules of the country and workplace based on personal beliefs . But that doesn’t involve posting personal information and photos , insults and horrible speculation.

How many posts have you reported for doing this and how posts were removed by MNHQ?

or are we just going low now?

We?
Are you involved in posting transphobia on MN or elsewhere?

Hoardasurass · 02/09/2025 13:53

Biggadyboom · 02/09/2025 11:15

someone asked what I consider transphobia

https://x.com/TheParty1sOver/status/1962595945188622435

this thread is the one that particularly stopped me in my tracks. Has the pervert and enabler comment. Also stuff about him skinwalking his wife , being creepy, making people retch and « degenerate absolute brain dead moronic fuckwit«

I do think it’s transphobic. I don’t think saying that a trans woman is a man is transphobic and I am very glad that that has changed. I remember when misgenderubg would get you deleted and warned in this forum. But I do think that saying a transwoman is a pervert, skin walker and creepy is transphobic especially underneath a wedding photo mainly showing his non binary wife (so by their definition also trans) and calling her a degenerate absolute brain dead moronic fuckwit and an enabler. To me it crosses the threshold into hate because they are trans.

again, not saying any of you personally posted these things, and apologies again for the assumption that there is a crossover.

thank you to those thoughtfully adding to a discussion

Well i still cant see it as its a private account therfore the problem that your having is clearly who you follow on X not really a mumsnet issue

SirBasil · 02/09/2025 13:53

Many many (very funny, sorrynotsorry) songs

And that utterly fantastic pastiche of the Dr No film poster

SirBasil · 02/09/2025 13:57

Many many (very funny, sorrynotsorry) songs

And that utterly fantastic pastiche of the Dr No film poster

ParmaVioletTea · 02/09/2025 14:01

Biggadyboom · 02/09/2025 13:01

Personally I won't be insulting or calling out. I'll be continuing to read, research. make up my own mind, write to my elected representatives, public bodies, support court actions, have debates and avoid folk who do nothing to solve the debate by insulting others online.

I work in the arts, I know many many people who consider themselves queer or under the trans umbrella. The vast majority of them absolutely believe all this, believe they are in the right and are not doing it to be perverted. Just like the many GC folk I mean are not resisting to be bigoted and evil.

Conflicts are fought by people who think they in the right. Or else why would they fight? ( bar course a minority of people who like conflict, are deluded or pychpathis etc)
I'm interested in a resolution. I hope it's coming.

I get it @Biggadyboom

I think some of the response here is evidence of just how much many women's tolerance has run out, due mostly to the unreasonableness (and violence) of TRAs and antifas.

Like @Themaghag I find myself becoming rather more tanti-trans about individuals than I should be. It's because of their awful behaviour, but it's not something I like about myself, nor the person I want to be.

I wonder if @Biggadyboom might be trying to think about this in company with other feminists here on MN. It's a pity that any ambivalence or attempt to get to a layered/complex understanding of the current situation.

I find myself nodding along with multiple points of viw in this thread. There's a lot to learn from all posters in these sorts of discussions.

SerafinasGoose · 02/09/2025 14:08

TheKeatingFive · 02/09/2025 12:59

No, absolutely not.

Seeing a justification for something is not in any way indicative that you'd do the same thing yourself.

You were totally out of order suggesting that we were in some way responsible for those posts. You can quit your attempts to weasel out of taking responsibility for that.

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Amen.

Hoardasurass · 02/09/2025 14:08

Biggadyboom · 02/09/2025 11:58

"So what word do you use to define men who watch nonconsenting women undress knowing full well they are uncomfortable with it? What word do you use to describe men like this who try to get women fired for complaining about undressing in front of them? What word do you use to describe those that support this behaviour?"

It depends on what you assume to be Upton’s reasons for acting the way he did. You can interpret it in the way you did and decide that pervert and enabler are simply descriptive terms for your interpretation of upton’s and his wive’s behaviour. But that would involve thinking that Upton knows he is male, is using the female changing room in order to make women uncomfortable as they undress.

That may be possible Ofcourse, and in some cases that would be true. There are Ofcourse some men who pretend to be trans in order to have power over and access to women in a vulnerable state. Which is why single sex spaces should absolutely be protected and why self ID is absolutely a dreadful idea. There should be safe guarding, there should be checks and balances, single sex spaces should be protected.

but if you assume (like I do) that there is a likliehoiod that Upton is a person with genuine gender dysphoria, who thinks they are a woman and that has been encouraged and supported by the pro trans lobby ( in hud fucking Government, media, workplace , marriage no less to believe he is a victim) and was/is acting the way he is because he is fully within that version of reality. He is Therefore using the changing room because told to use it and feeling victimised because he has been supported in his belief that he is,

so not pervert and enabler .

person who believes he is a woman and his wife who also believes the same thing.

i believe that the laws of the country shouldn’t be changed around their believes, I believe that women shouldn’t be hounded for not believing the same as them, I believe that it’s should be possible to discuss it and find a way forward. But i don’t assume every person claiming a trans indentity is perverted

What are you on about ofcourse he knows hes male ffs
And yes everyone who meets him knows too.
And his wife knows that she married a man
So now we've cleared up the bloody obvious attempt at defending and minimizing his behaviour what would you call a man in possession of a medical degree who behaves in the manor described in the question that your trying not to answer

PestoHoliday · 02/09/2025 14:10

Helleofabore · 02/09/2025 11:16

I get lots of bird photos because I follow a dude called CarlBovis. He takes good pics. Like his puffins.

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I love Carl! He, Lev and Women's Art were my favourite twitter accounts. I miss nice Twitter. The weird algorithms kept throwing stuff at me that I had no interest in. Owen Jones, FFS.

Onesie123 · 02/09/2025 14:10

Biggadyboom · 02/09/2025 13:01

Personally I won't be insulting or calling out. I'll be continuing to read, research. make up my own mind, write to my elected representatives, public bodies, support court actions, have debates and avoid folk who do nothing to solve the debate by insulting others online.

I work in the arts, I know many many people who consider themselves queer or under the trans umbrella. The vast majority of them absolutely believe all this, believe they are in the right and are not doing it to be perverted. Just like the many GC folk I mean are not resisting to be bigoted and evil.

Conflicts are fought by people who think they in the right. Or else why would they fight? ( bar course a minority of people who like conflict, are deluded or pychpathis etc)
I'm interested in a resolution. I hope it's coming.

It's ok, the UK Supreme Court already resolved it.

I'd recommend staying off twitter though, it's a cesspit. But don't assume that just because you're on there the rest of MN must be.

SerafinasGoose · 02/09/2025 14:10

Noodledog · 02/09/2025 13:34

The constant interjections on the language I’m using, the threats or evidence about a risk of self-harm, or the extreme distress at being misgendered, contrasted with his demeanour as a witness when giving evidence - it was self-assured, tending to smug - his interventions and unruly behaviour about language, the bizarre attempt to have the whole case in private - it was an extraordinary application - the complete absence of any documentation, let alone any consultation of female staff, the lack of any process to allow men to self identify into female spaces, the cavalier approach to production of documents, the failure to investigate allegations about Dr Upton’s own behaviour - I’m going to suggest there is one cause that explains them all. It is that this is an organisation in the grip of a delusion…and that can only being sustained by bullying’.

That's a magnificent summing up of the case- I hope JR was taking notes! "Self-assured, tending to smug" is a great line, definitely one to remember 😁

It was certainly inspired to end on the point that it's impossible to argue an irrational point rationally.

And in rides Jane Russell, straight off the back of that remark, to make the point more eloquently than even Naomi Cunningham is capable of doing.

AnSolas · 02/09/2025 14:17

Biggadyboom · 02/09/2025 11:58

"So what word do you use to define men who watch nonconsenting women undress knowing full well they are uncomfortable with it? What word do you use to describe men like this who try to get women fired for complaining about undressing in front of them? What word do you use to describe those that support this behaviour?"

It depends on what you assume to be Upton’s reasons for acting the way he did. You can interpret it in the way you did and decide that pervert and enabler are simply descriptive terms for your interpretation of upton’s and his wive’s behaviour. But that would involve thinking that Upton knows he is male, is using the female changing room in order to make women uncomfortable as they undress.

That may be possible Ofcourse, and in some cases that would be true. There are Ofcourse some men who pretend to be trans in order to have power over and access to women in a vulnerable state. Which is why single sex spaces should absolutely be protected and why self ID is absolutely a dreadful idea. There should be safe guarding, there should be checks and balances, single sex spaces should be protected.

but if you assume (like I do) that there is a likliehoiod that Upton is a person with genuine gender dysphoria, who thinks they are a woman and that has been encouraged and supported by the pro trans lobby ( in hud fucking Government, media, workplace , marriage no less to believe he is a victim) and was/is acting the way he is because he is fully within that version of reality. He is Therefore using the changing room because told to use it and feeling victimised because he has been supported in his belief that he is,

so not pervert and enabler .

person who believes he is a woman and his wife who also believes the same thing.

i believe that the laws of the country shouldn’t be changed around their believes, I believe that women shouldn’t be hounded for not believing the same as them, I believe that it’s should be possible to discuss it and find a way forward. But i don’t assume every person claiming a trans indentity is perverted

Here is my question if you peaked.

Have you written to the NHS Trust involved in the case?
https://www.nhsfife.org/about-us/nhs-fife-board/team-members/chief-executive/carol-potter/

and/or
the General Medical Council?

https://www.gmc-uk.org/concerns

to raise your concerns over his
• professional training ?
or
• professional competency?
or
• general mental health?

Because if you believe he is not able to determine his own sex he should no be allowed pratice medicine on others.

As he was under supervision by a number of senior doctors and worked closely with senior nurses and other professionals it would be beneficial to the general public if you made inquiries as to who these persons were and the professional bodies they are answerable to. And report concerns as to how and why they dis not raise safeguarding issues with the Trust or his professional body.

Can I suggest that if you have extra time to spare the public would be much better off if you make inquiries as to how such a person passed through a UK medical training system. Was interviewed and hired and then was let loose on the population of Fife (etc.) who attended the public funded health service expecting to be seen by a doctor with a rudimentary understanding of human biology.

Account734 · 02/09/2025 16:18

Biggadyboom · 02/09/2025 11:58

"So what word do you use to define men who watch nonconsenting women undress knowing full well they are uncomfortable with it? What word do you use to describe men like this who try to get women fired for complaining about undressing in front of them? What word do you use to describe those that support this behaviour?"

It depends on what you assume to be Upton’s reasons for acting the way he did. You can interpret it in the way you did and decide that pervert and enabler are simply descriptive terms for your interpretation of upton’s and his wive’s behaviour. But that would involve thinking that Upton knows he is male, is using the female changing room in order to make women uncomfortable as they undress.

That may be possible Ofcourse, and in some cases that would be true. There are Ofcourse some men who pretend to be trans in order to have power over and access to women in a vulnerable state. Which is why single sex spaces should absolutely be protected and why self ID is absolutely a dreadful idea. There should be safe guarding, there should be checks and balances, single sex spaces should be protected.

but if you assume (like I do) that there is a likliehoiod that Upton is a person with genuine gender dysphoria, who thinks they are a woman and that has been encouraged and supported by the pro trans lobby ( in hud fucking Government, media, workplace , marriage no less to believe he is a victim) and was/is acting the way he is because he is fully within that version of reality. He is Therefore using the changing room because told to use it and feeling victimised because he has been supported in his belief that he is,

so not pervert and enabler .

person who believes he is a woman and his wife who also believes the same thing.

i believe that the laws of the country shouldn’t be changed around their believes, I believe that women shouldn’t be hounded for not believing the same as them, I believe that it’s should be possible to discuss it and find a way forward. But i don’t assume every person claiming a trans indentity is perverted

So you excuse his behaviour and that of his enablers because you think he and they have no grasp of reality. If this is your view then how do you feel about someone who has no grasp of reality working as a doctor? There are plenty of trans people who understand they are not their desired biological sex and yet they respect the boundaries of others.

My understanding of gender dysphoria clearly differs from yours because I don't believe it means complete lack of touch with reality thereby excusing all associated bad behaviour. Your interpretation of gender dysphoria seems to say people with it are delusional and their behaviour can't be helped. I would imagine a lot of trans people would find that transphobic to use your own slur.

I believe he has a perfectly good understand of reality, it just doesn't suit the validation he requires so he does as he wishes and when he doesn't get his way he is malicious.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 02/09/2025 17:08

ThePinkPoster · 02/09/2025 08:42

This. I could not give a tiny shit about how that disgusting man or his wife feel.

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I dunno. I could probably feel pretty sorry for his wife. I daresay she'd much rather he wasn't like this.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 02/09/2025 17:12

Biggadyboom · 02/09/2025 08:48

It’s not transphobic to call a man a man , but it is to post endless private photos including wedding photos with comments like « pervert and enabler » under them.

If these photos are private, where did the X posters get them? I assume they are elsewhere on the Internet so not private at all.

CohensDiamondTeeth · 02/09/2025 17:19

MistyGreenAndBlue · 02/09/2025 17:08

I dunno. I could probably feel pretty sorry for his wife. I daresay she'd much rather he wasn't like this.

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Yes I have sympathy for the wife, tbh I actually worry about her. We know from the trans widows threads what other women have gone through with their trans identified husbands.

She could be a willing and enthusiastic participant, but it wouldn't surprise me if she privately felt trapped and confused. I know I would if I were her.

NeverOneBiscuit · 02/09/2025 17:34

I’m still incredulous that the op believes that Dr Upton thinks he’s a woman. In what way would HE ‘think’ that? He’s been through medical school, married a woman (non-binary? yeah, yeah) & by their own admission are trying for a baby.

Who does Dr Upton think is going to supply the sperm? The non-binary gender fairy? He must be wondering because apparently he really thinks he is a woman.

This is exactly why I have zero patience for any of this gender ideology guff. You only have to ask a few questions, just pick away a little bit, & you end up typing jaw dropping idiocy like the above.

I’m not on X but no I won’t be kind, I won’t lie, I won’t collude, I won’t perform the expected feminine norms. Dr Upton is an abusive man & he can face whatever consequences arise from that.

Mysticaldeer · 02/09/2025 18:13

Biggadyboom · 02/09/2025 08:48

It’s not transphobic to call a man a man , but it is to post endless private photos including wedding photos with comments like « pervert and enabler » under them.

I'd say you need to express your opinion to the poster that has done that then.

They have the right to respond or ignore, obviously.

Personally, I feel that as Sandie's husband and daughter have been put through the mill, as well as the insults and accusations thrown at SP, then Upton deserves a comment or three.

CohensDiamondTeeth · 02/09/2025 18:33

@NeverOneBiscuit It's the guy in the Darlington nurses case that's trying for a baby with his girlfriend / wife.

Completely agree with the rest of your post though!

NebulousSupportPostcard · 02/09/2025 18:37

Biggadyboom · 02/09/2025 08:51

Ok well fair enough. it wasn’t you, it was those other kids. Those naughty ones over there. I get it.

Could I ask then that we could discuss it without the childish « wasn’t us » comments?

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The last two days have been an exhausting blur of following the tribunal remotely and trying to keep up with press/tribunal tweets who had access to more documents, and who weren't held back by sound problems that remote observers suffered.

Those of us with a strong interest have been discussing all manner of aspects of the case fairly solidly for 7 hours plus each day. Despite that, I can't think of anything I could add that would enlighten you as to why people on twitter are posting whatever they are posting. It might be a good idea to read the Sandie Peggie threads to get a better idea of the issues that have come up for posters over here.

It's not that I'm not up for discussion, more that different discussions are ongoing.

Judging by today's events, Dr Upton must have considered the possibility of bringing himself (and therefore more press images) back to the public attention, because his counsel has taken action that could mean further evidence, if not an entire re-run of the case, may now be necessitated. I haven't been particularly interested in old photos of him, because one way or another we are likely to see more of him in future anyway.