Minneapolis school shooter

[SouthernNorthernLass]

I had my suspicions when CNN kept referring to the shooter as ‘they’ and said as much to DH.

Lo and behold, a crossdressing man called ‘Robin’ (formerly Robert) Westman.

Well, you can’t trust the BBC with anything sex-related!! They are completely captured.

Thanks @MarieDeGournay I'm not Catholic. The view on gender transition has shifted as I understand it but remains firmly opposed opposed to any suggestions you can pick and choose your sex.

As we know, some TRAs have a tendency towards threats of violence towards those who who disagree with them and their ideology - however respectfully. I could certainly see that as a motive/and or they read or viewed that.

The FBI is has stated that they are investigating it as terrorism and a hate crime. I imagine that would be more of a focus if it was from a Muslim shooter, somehow, than a trans one...

I'm Catholic and am so sad to hear of a lovely start of term Mass targeted in this horrific manner. So confused why trans lunatics targeting churches/Christians.

I’m in the U.S. and am SPITTING mad at the Minneapolis mayor, Frey, who seemed to be more upset that trans people’s feelings were being hurt than that there are DEAD CHILDREN.

If you read some of the hyperbolic messages aimed at that group as a whole because of the actions of one, you’d see why. This thread is illustrative, and it’s minor. See ZenNudist’s “So confused why trans lunatics are targeting churches/Christians”. One did. One. And it may have nothing to do with gender - certainly, there was much other political nonsense in the manifesto and on the gun/s.

I’ve literally just come here to post about this. Why are the pronouns ‘her’ in the recent U.K. editorial I just read when the American police officer talking directly to the press are using ‘he’ throughout. Whose guidelines are we adhering to exactly?

From what I can glean it sounds like there was a lack of acceptance from the prescribed religion of the family and potentially the mother. Very, very difficult. They seemed really intentional on wanting to target kids and not the adults though which would make me wonder about bullying.

This is at least the second time that a transgender shooter targeted Christian schoolkids in the USA. Someone upthread shared more cases in public schools.

Perhaps declaring transgenderism as a mental illness will be helpful—it will at least make it harder for them to buy a firearm. Hasn’t it been shown that transgenderism is related to other kinds of mental illnesses?

We don’t know the whole story yet, but it seems that while the mother worked at the school, she actually seemed to affirm her son’s identity and used a female name for him.

You’re right it is not acceptable to target hyperbolic hatred on all trans people because of the actions of one trans person.

However, media coverage of the incident strenuously trying to cover up the fact that he was trans is also unacceptable. And it is a reasonable line of enquiry to wonder whether there was a connection between his genderist beliefs and his actions against a Church school, not least since there have been other incidents with similarities, as PP posted.

Anyone who thinks it is acceptable to shoot primary school children is seriously deluded. And trying to understand what leads people to do this necessitates examining their state of mind and beliefs, to try to prevent further such attacks. Their transness needs to be considered relevant to that examination, just as any other religious or political belief system or health condition would be.

Yup, just read a bit of a jarring article on Stuff NZ that kept referring to the shooter by his surname, until finally they/themming them towards the end.

I’m not so sure the other one can be claimed as a clear targeting based on religion. It was the shooter’s own school.

I do agree with making guns harder to get; I don’t agree with a blanket “transgenderism is a mental illness” thus all transgender people are automatically unstable and potentially violent rhetoric. This is what Conservatives would want you to repeat while the most common offenders are white males. (And the most recent one is a white male, likely Conservative.)

I think declaring it a mental illness or promoting some understanding that it is associated with other mental illnesses won’t make people necessarily leap out and say, ‘they are all psychotic killers’ because the mental illnesses in question are often things like depression, anxiety or suicidal thoughts.

I guess I just hope the conversation could move from affirmation. It seems dangerous to affirm his delusions

This. And as I pointed out on the other thread, of the very few of these incidents committed by biological females, a significant proportion have been committed by women who identify as “trans”. This is a man who identifies as trans. The mental health problems and sense of resentment are a problem. The frequent wishing of violence on others when they feel disrespected or thwarted is a problem.

Another senseless murder by someone with significant mental health difficulties, affirmed by authorities as transgender instead of getting to the root cause.

The BBC subsequently removed pronouns from its online reporting, however, its News at Ten used he/him.

Amazing! A step in the right direction.

I only saw the 10 o’clock bulletin mentioning him all through. No pic of him. I assumed it was a conscious move not to make it all about the shooter, give him fame/airtime or whatever. No idea he was trans.

That was when the BBC staff thought he was a common-or-garden man.

It changed when they learned of the trans aspect.

Sticking to the Beeb's batshit editorial policy

Yes, and it is mental illness that underpins 100% of school shootings, often against a background of familial abuse/neglect, even where they say it is for political purposes or some other express reason. The issue I have is that in denying that transgenderism, or the perp having a trans identity, is rooted in/part of a profile of mental illness. We can’t begin to have a rational discourse on this if every time a trans person, or a schizophrenic, or a bipolar person commits heinous crime, the response is ‘don’t vilify the mentally ill’ or ‘dont vilify the trans community’. The victims have to be front and centre of the media reports and factors such as being a trans activist or trans identified or having any other mental illness has to be discussed in order to understand and prevent this happening again.

Just as we want men who claim to be trans kept out of women's spaces =/= saying they are all rapists, saying that if a transperson who carries out a despicable crime =/= claiming they are all psychotic killers.

The fact they claimed to be trans may be pertinent. It is often a symptom of other mental health problems which seem to go untreated once 'stunning and brave' is, for want of a better word, diagnosed.

In this instance, whatever was wrong with the guy his anger was directed outwards before he turned it on himself. Suicidality though seems to be common in young transpeople; thought about, planned, attempted or realised.

What, once you've got your diagnosis, you don't feel stunning or brave? What, no matter how affirming your family or community is, you still feel alone and scared? What if you're not delusional enough to realise you don't pass? What if you can see on the faces of your neighbours, and children, especially, make bad liars.

If he hadn't committed such a vile crime I'd feel sorry for him.

You see, this is a shining example of the problem.

The Minneapolis shooter, Robin Westman, is being reported as trans, and that detail is already being highlighted in coverage in ways that distract from the bigger picture.
The truth is that identity here does not explain the violence. Less than one tenth of one percent of mass shootings involve a trans person, which makes it statistically insignificant. The overwhelming majority of shooters are right wing cis men, yet that pattern rarely drives headlines.

What we are seeing is those who paddle in the shallow end of the gene-pool predictably jumping on these reports to stir up their base.
Rather than dealing with the real drivers of mass violence like guns being everywhere and extremist rhetoric spreading online, they zero in on a marginalized group. It is not about understanding the facts, it is about creating a convenient villain.

The bias is obvious.

When shooters are cis white men, the story shifts to individual failings or vague nods to mental health.
When a shooter is reported as trans, political operatives suddenly push the idea that it reflects an entire community.
That is scapegoating, and it distracts from any real effort to prevent future shootings.

All of this is window dressing if you feel, as many of us do, that trans identity is a mental illness and what the statistic show is that 95% of mass shooters in the US are male and more than 95% of mass shooters have/had diagnosed mental illness… the point is that in denying trans identity as a MH issue/normalising it means that these men are able to obtain weapons and ammunition when they should not be eligible, any more than a schizophrenic or bipolar individual is under US gun laws.

ETA - as the mother of a child/YP who trans identified for 7 years and interacted with Tavistock and many other professionals, I am absolutely certain that gender issues are rooted in mental illness. This is not bigotry but informed by experience and consultation with clinical specialists.

What @CautiousLurker01 said.