Anne health Susie Greens new clinic

[Hoardasurass]

So not happy with the puberty blockers ban in the UK and frustrated by Wes Streeting closing her planned loophole she found a new one and has been arranging for parents to take their kids abroad to get prescriptions of puberty blockers injections and testosterone for under 16s. The government has said its going to stop the practice but hasn't said how.

Gift token for the telegraph article

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/d5a10834b446c428

Well yes, of course. The bigots playbook never discounts the testimony of a minority when it can be used against them. They just ignore it the rest of the time.

Who claims that you are trans, and on what basis?

You're hardly engaging in good faith when you won't or can't even define what trans means. Surely that would be the simplest way to demonstrate to people that your claims about trans children are valid?

Simply repeating with ever increasing aggression that "trans kids exist" isn't going to persuade anyone. Shouting the same thing on repeat without articulating your point is not persuasive. Even less so when you accompany it by name-calling.

All the other terms in this discussion are easily and objectively defined. Except trans. So help us out. How are you defining trans?

And when they explain how they ‘knew’ they were trans, somehow it always seems to involve which toys they played with, what they wore and how long their hair was.

What about the ones that thought they were but got it wrong?

Generally, when people are trying to argue a point or make a case for something, they are pleased to answer questions about their point. It is odd that you don’t.

What about the adults who have explained that there WAS a point in adulthood when they became ‘trans’? Some of them after watching ‘sissy’ porn about forced feminisation. What about the men who suddenly become ‘trans’ after they’d been arrested for a crime?

You seem to be making very broad and rather inaccurate claims about a very diverse population.

So can you explain how it isn’t anything up do with stereotypes when that is the only explanation we are given by trans charities such as Mermaids and Stonewall?

No actually. I haven’t said that every trans adult knew they were trans as a child. Just as some gay people don’t know they are gay until later in life.

All I have said is that we know that many trans adults describe knowing they were trans as a child.

The only blanket statements here are people erroneously claiming that there are no trans children.

Is the concept of having a real life that takes priority over a transphobic message board really that alien to you?

There's no such thing as a 'trans child'. Thankfully both the NHS and the DofE agree, and caution against using that loaded and inaccurate phrase.

Another basic question, while I wait for an answer to the first.

What does 'transphobic' mean?

So far as we can tell that group is a very small minority of people who had experienced persistent gender dysphoria as children. That’s why for all your so called concern about detransitioners, you don’t have any actual stats on detransitioners.

But of course you are right that severe and irreversible medical interventions should only be offered to those with the capacity to consent. That’s why I personally don’t think cross sex hormones should be offered to kids before they are 16, and puberty blockers should be used for severe and persistent cases of dysphoria.

Go sealion someone else.

Yet here you are 🤷‍♀️.

It’s fine to just admit that you haven’t got an answer though.

‘Trans’ children are those who claim they feel like the opposite sex. As a part of my dissertation, I researched this assertion. Multiple anecdotal accounts, written by men who identify as trans. Almost without fault, the men who thought they should be women were ‘effeminate’ men, who liked playing with typically ‘girly’ stuff. They liked pink. They were emotional. They were ‘soft’. But most tellingly, they had parents (mainly fathers) who rejected their lack of masculinity and either rejected them emotionally and/or physically abused them. Often both. It was such a strong theme as to be a significant factor in their opinions that they should’ve been women. Remember, these accounts were researched and written by those who subscribe to the notion that one can ‘become’ the opposite sex. ‘Trans’ children exist, inasmuch as children, who have very fluid ideas of their own identity (which is NOT psychologically set in stone until much later in life) - however adults, who DO have much more rigid ideas of identity, tend to impose their own belief systems on these children, who then absorb these ideas as their own. In the same way that catholic guilt is a learned set of beliefs. As is racism. Or Conservatism. Or Communism. ‘Trans’ children only exist because adults have, ironically, given kids a rigid label that allows no fluidity or freedom of expression.

I’m not sure what is difficult to understand about people having lives.

Sometimes you have time to engage with bigots and sometimes - the majority of time in fact - you don’t. Sorry to disappoint you but spending a bank holiday Sunday and Monday with my son and wife were more important than responding to whatever oh so original gotcha question you think I’ve evaded.

So far as we can tell that group is a very small minority of people who had experienced persistent gender dysphoria as children.

That’s why for all your so called concern about detransitioners, you don’t have any actual stats on detransitioners.

can you explain how this statement follows from your previous sentence about gender dysphoria? I can’t see the ‘that’s why’ link you are making at all.

I’m glad you acknowledge that the detransitioners exist - those who were wrongly told or who wrongly thought they were ‘trans’.

I agree that medical interventions should only be given to those who can consent. Currently, for this type of decision, affecting fertility and future health, the NHS places the age at which consent should be accepted at about 30. I think that sounds reasonable.

There, we’ve found some common ground - I didn’t expect that so soon.

It wasn’t a ‘gotcha’ question. It was a simple question to understand where you are coming from. To find some common terms of reference.

You were asked to explain how a child can know they are trans and you took the time to write out a couple of paragraphs of obfuscation (and have made several other longish posts). Wouldn’t it advance the cause you are obviously so passionate about if you could just answer the question asked? Don’t you want people to engage with your posts and try to understand what you are saying?

As I said, this isn’t the usual response for someone trying to import some knowledge.

And of course we also know that some boys who desperately want to be girls grow up to be gay.

Rupert Everett for example.

Rupert Everett warns against hormone therapy for children who question gender | Rupert Everett | The Guardian

“I really wanted to be a girl. Thank God the world of now wasn’t then, because I’d be on hormones and I’d be a woman. After I was 15 I never wanted to be a woman again.”

(Obviously he wouldn't have actually been a woman.)

But he's not alone. There is a strong correlation between little boys who want to be girls and boys who grow up to be gay.

Don't you think it's better for those little boys to be allowed to grow up to be gay men rather than medicate them for a non-illness which will leave them sterile and with impaired sexual function? That sounds a bit homophobic to me.

It's not a "gotcha". It's the nub of the whole matter.

What exactly is "being trans"? If "woman" is not "adult human female", and not a collection of feminine stereotypes, then what is it? What do females, and males who feel they are women, actually have in common that justifies using the same word for both? How can a man "know he is a woman"? What does he mean by it?

In essence, these are all the same question. And it's never answered. That's why you keep seeing it and can complain that it's "unoriginal". It doesn't need to be original. It needs to be answered, if the idea of "really" being trans is to have any credibility at all.

Excuse me? As in, what do you mean?

I've been trying to find the collection of stereotypes which used to be used to assess whether a child was trans on sites like the NHS. They've all been deleted as far as I can see in favour of vague waffle about having feelings about gender.

Being trans now seems to be a vague feeling that someone wants to be a different 'gender', while what this actually means is undefined. And yet we're supposed to accept that even young children can experience this mismatch between their 'gender' and their sex and know that this means they are 'trans', even though there is no definition or even description of what that means.

Meanwhile mature intelligent adults who ask what this means are told that we're bigots for not accepting that these small children can understand that they have an opposite sex 'gender' and that they need to be medicated asap as a result.

None of it makes any sense at all.

An interesting contribution. Thank you

As predicted you can’t explain gender identity in a way that doesn’t rely on sexist tropes.