NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #41

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39
Thread 40: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378996-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-40

from Herald
3:13pm
Ms Hamilton was asked whether Esther Davidson was the appropriate person to investigate Ms Peggie.
She said that Ms Peggie's legal team were clear that Ms Davidson had previously been involved in the investigation, and therefore she was not the right person.
Angela Glancey was appointed as investigator.
2:59pm
Anne Hamilton says she has worked for NHS Fife since 2006. She is a HR advisor.
She has only met Dr Upton and Ms Peggie once during conduct hearings.

JR demonstrating kindness to NC by setting the scene for questioning about how kind SP would find a mediated discussion with DU

That was quicker than expected. 😁

Really highlights how absurd it is.

If he went into the consultants' room and was
challenged but said he was identifying as a consultant...?

JR is going to rely heavily on SP not using the proper escalation channels. It’s why NCs heresy argument is key, I.e. no way in which she could have complained.

Trying to keep up.

Jr realises the less they open their mouths, the fewer feet they can put in them!
NC up now.

Wasn't her line manager supposed to find out how to escalate and let her know, but didn't bother?

😂😂

In 23/24 the sickness absent rate for NHS Scotland was 6.21% and 6.59% for NHS Fife. If they do employ 8,000 staff that equate to 527 staff (no idea if that figure captures suspensions as well).

Sorry, I'm going to skim through JR at speed so I thought I'd do a spot of googling.

It is a legal maxim sometimes attributed to Gladstone, but the idea is much older than that.

from herald
3:20pm
We're now onto cross-examination from Naomi Cunningham.
Ms Cunningham said the workplace investigation appeared odd because you asked Esther Davidson to get statements.
Wouldn't it be the best idea to interview that complainant and then the accused as soon as possible? These interviews should have been used to get information, she said.

Oh JR give it a break

from SV philemore on x 'It is ridiculous to say that it is an article 6 or 8 breach to call a man, a man. We have to stop pandering to this.If any participant to tribunal proceedings is 'upset' or 'confused' by something the Judge rule at the outset was permissible, that is very much their problem and their responsibility to deal with in a manner that does not disrupt or delay the proceedings.'

It seems HR absence was an excuse to not progress / focus on other day to day concerns. It's not like they paid much attention to HR advice!

The timescale is ridiculous for predominantly a he said/she said investigation.

NC on to pronouns now, Art 8 rights to dignity etc.

Shouldn't she just bring it up in re examination. It really disrupts the flow and slows everything down.

I think you'll find it's now been coined "she said/she said"

NC - you will see DU ref'd to as Their, doesn't use DU prefs pronouns, their experiences, did someone change them, final version of report uses she her
JR - not quite right, 1541, it's a mix. Accept it is used, but not exclusive.

Oh not again. How about we swap "a man" for "a Pete"? Is that still offensive?

Hmm, is this what AG glossed over as corrections to 'grammar'?

It’s interesting if Sandie said he/him but the investigators changed them to either they/their or she/her.

from Herald
3:26pm
Ms Hamilton is being asked now about pronouns.
In original draft report said referred to Dr Upton as "they" in one bullet point.
In the final draft, it has been changed to "she/her" pronouns.
Jane Russell KC interrupts to state that the draft report being referred to does not exclusively use "they/them" pronouns.
Ms Cunningham asks Ms Hamilton to shed light on why this change was made.
3:22pm
Ms Hamilton is asked whether she has confidence that the report completed by investigating officer Angela Glancey was completely her own work.
She said she is "very confident".

I expect the that the good Dr Upton has written some notes on whoever wrote that report.

If I were the claimant's barrister, I would not use female pronouns for BU. If forced to deviate from the previously agreed arrangement, tedious as it is, I'd just refer repeatedly to 'Dr Upton'.