NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #41

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39
Thread 40: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378996-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-40

J - 419 we see at end of first bullet para, says she can use f changing rooms. another line says she, but the syntax has also changed
NC - the qu is in original, agree with JR its' a mix, but they and their used and later replaced with preference. How come about?
AH - no

NC- recommendations we see first bullet, might include further allegations of misgendering, refs DU as a man and he/him - clear need to be removed from report itself if the case
AH - can't say
NC - the board can't alledge misgendering when it's own report does

JR has gone full Dr Upton Dr Upton in discussion of avoiding misgendering

JR interrupts and answers fir the witness again! Who asked you?

Ah but that would be a micro aggression, according to a post up thread!

NC - was anyone reported for misgendering in this report?
AH - no
JR - it is different using they them to she her and he him
J - point is not she/he

I wonder if NC was after who had "corrected" the pronouns in the report but has had to give up on getting to the bottom of that. Or whether she was only after making the point she made, that there was plenty of "misgendering" of Upton going on, but there was only one person who was ever going to be punished for it.

My mistake! It’s evidence in chief I think.

I keep seeing a photo of BU being bounced around the socials that looks suspiciously like a wedding photo to me - i.e., he was a he when he got married.

@Butchyrestingface Yes he was Theodore Upton when he got married. At some point after that he decided to become Beth

Did she jump up and down like a jack-in-the-box last week whenever any of the NHS Fife witnesses misgendered Dr Upton?

Nope, if you're not using the pronouns Dr Upton chose, you're misgendering - JR really wants to have her cake and eat it, doesn't she?

Lucky, lucky wife. 🙄

I don't think this is quite what Tammy Wynette had in mind.

from herald
(NC asks witness) Would it have been "awkward and embarrassing" for NHS Fife to be found to be failing to use Dr Upton's chosen pronouns.
Ms Hamilton said she could not speak to this, but said Ms Glancey was not disciplined for "misgendering" in the draft report.

3:30pm
Jane Russell said it is not necessarily misgendering to use they/them pronouns. She said it is entirely different from deliberately using he/him pronouns for Dr Upton.

If this an example of an HR person whose first priority here, above the evidence she provides, is to protect her employer?

NC - remind yourself of exchange, go up chain to JH.
AH - I recall email
NC - recall exchange
AH - have read
NC - clear JH exasperated by determined to susx sandie.
AH - gave opinion
NC - went so far as to say ludicrous. I reiterated it was ludicrous to have a nurse at home

Jacqueline H, the sensible one.

that's the intent, I suppose.

NC: "Was anyone reported for misgendering in the report?" How can you accuse someone of misgendering when you are doing it yourself.

JR: " It's different you know - when we do it"

With the 500+ NHS Fife staff sat at home (not sure how many were genuinely ill versus scared of 5ft 4in nurses versus suspended) they might possibly have enough staff to run a little cottage hospital.

NC - your HR colleagues were sceptical of SP leaving cubicles when patients needed her. Say have no evidence she walked out.
AH - we didn't have any evidence, no statements at that point, i was on leave, not involved in chain. JH said we as a team had no evidence at that time.
NC - you never had any
AH - we did from beth
NC - you knew that from DU
AH - no formal statement yet

So 'Beth says' = 'evidence'

Any effort to defy the genderborg is either bigoted, a micro-agression, or 'silly'.

It is becoming tiresomely predictable.

from herald
3:35pm
Ms Cunningham is asking about alternatives to suspension for Ms Peggie.
She said that it was "ludicrous" to suspend a nurse of 30 years, who could have been at work and potentially saving lives over "wholly inadequate" patient safety concerns.
Ms Hamilton said it is HR's job to give advice but she was not specifically involved at this time.
But Ms Cunningham asks whether HR colleagues were "sceptical" that Ms Peggie was leaving patients unattended. She said there was no evidence of this.
Ms Hamilton said she was not involved in this specific discussion.

Agree. Is this not also trying to claim the internal disciplinary found fault with SP for not handling at she should have done? That the onus was on her to escalate even though her line manager didn’t give her that option?

But, we’re all deeply unpleasant hags on here!
This is Mumsnet, ergo a Nest of Vipers! 🐍
We aren’t supposed to behave in this absolutely lovely fashion.

I rather think that’s the point, she has nothing else. NC is clearly just much better at her job than JR is.