NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #41

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39
Thread 40: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378996-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-40

Thanks for transcript of DrU's notes, Chariot, really useful to have!
Will read during next break.

Michael Foran is impressed with CE

x.com/michaelpforan/status/1948684582444040638?s=46

"Charlotte Elves is preforming one of the best cross examinations I have ever seen"

Panel asking qq
PD - AW and manager with explanation and for a steer, I queried if forensic or not, wasn't going that way, time factors around leave, scheduled another call. Created a guide for DU how you can take down and record, i would witness it done live. Created blank form to record

Here was me thinking I was a tech whizz because I managed to install a VPN on my router (so I could watch the Criterion Channel in the UK - nothing dodgy) but I’m totally lost with this!

So to summarise:

• There were lots of better ways that this information could have been extracted but NHS Fife let Upton to do it with very little supervision.
• The IT expert queried why it wasn't being done as a forensic investigation
• There are notes that are dated August by Upton that the data says were not created until October
• The IT expert cannot explain this discrepancy but does not believe that Upton 'led him up the garden path'

So the implication that Sandie's team will claim is that Upton created these all in late October and lied.

Having some experience with IT nightmares I might have some sympathy but why the hell wouldn't Upton insist on getting someone from IT to do it for him?!

Sounds like it.

From TT

PD - AW and manager with explanation and for a steer, I queried if forensic or not, wasn't going that way, time factors around leave, scheduled another call. Created a guide for DU how you can take down and record, i would witness it done live. Created blank form to record

Fifer : so his Forensic Backgroon was used as follows. Do you want this done FORENSICALLY (cough cough NO) which will take probably a long long long time, or would you like it done, properly like, but quite quickly, like by the end ae the week (cough couch CHOOSE THE SECOND ONE). Ah very wise choice, I shall carry out your wishes forthwith grand visier.

So edits occurred before the note existed and the forensic spreadsheet was...made by Upton.

Totally legit. Crikey.

I'm no expert. (Like most in Fife if seems) But I get the impression this isn't good for Fife at all.

Discrepancies that they can't explain or put a finger on. Hopefully Jimbo can

Crying here x

P - also asked one possibility was DU is misleading us/you, your answer don't believe the case, but can't rule out
P - how could it be ruled out?
PD - can't say how it is ???? where I'm adding to DU's explanation, I was on the call at the time, if there was a tech issue i can't put my finger on it, can't recreate.
J - no qu from me

JR back

Totally! Nothing to see here. Dr Upton can be trusted to create his own forensic IT report!

Fife's IT man saying the other IT man has been very helpful in his report...

From TT

P - when did you send form
PD - on call
P - you said DU completed, when returned,
PD - moments after call
P - what is a native file
PD - files that the app produces
P - also asked one possibility was DU is misleading us/you, your answer don't believe the case, but can't rule out
P - how could it be ruled out?
PD - can't say how it is ???? where I'm adding to DU's explanation, I was on the call at the time, if there was a tech issue i can't put my finger on it, can't recreate.
J - no qu from me
JR - 260-265- weird incident august 23 further down oct 23

Fifer : has had tae tak a screen break and dae thae breathin exercises he got taught on the road rage awareness course.

"Fiona ENP, in the changing room." from Dr U's log is one of the witnesses to be called.

Can't wait for the other IT guy

PD - I can only comment JB report states dates times created, helpful

JR - did you have a visual on DU in meet

JR has been watching too many American cop programmes on telly - I wonder did she do that pointing at her eyes and then at his eyes thing with two fingers like they do..😄

CE to PD ‘so you chose the sixth best option’ just another employee sacrificed on the altar of DU, what a bloody shambles NHS Fife are.

Having now read the transcript of the phone notes as recorded, even if they're 100% accurate accounts of what took place I don't see that SP's behaviour is especially blameworthy.

We seem to have gone to a break but no sound so fuck knows what's going on

From TT

JR - another nov, another dec last is 28th Dec '23. Can you give assistance which bit of note the query of date 26th Oct is about?
PD - rephrase please
JR - can you help
PD - I can only comment JB report states dates times created, helpful
JR - did you have a visual on DU in meet
JR - can you describe what DU did?
PD - DU did production of sc sh, i advised as filled log. Had full visual of what file path going to, where mouse on screen.
JR - 1643 - top says, beth did this at request of AW and while watched by AW and PD
PD - yes
JR - read comments?

Fifer : ommmmmmm shanka shakti shakti, shambaao. OK so Mr Forensic Backgroon is watching Dr U via Teams, using Windaes Explorer tae pick up some files fae a machin that Forensic Backgroon's team has FULL ADMIN ACCESS tae. The Files which are stored in a decentralised profile on the server that Forensic Backgroon's team has FULL ADMIN ACCESS tae. Busy busy man. Wid rather watch someone fuckin around using a mouse tae browse a filesystem instead ae openin up an Admin prompt and getting aw "clickety clickety fuckety got them bye". OMMMMMMM

My perfectly ordinary lovely Scottish son-in-law has three first names, of which the third is his mother's maiden name. I gather this is a Scottish tradition for a first son.

Tom Kerridge homemade baked beans with a hunk of bread?

I’m howling here Bez, bloody brilliant 😂

Continuation thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42