NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #40

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39

Given that AG was responsible for the interviews surely she had authority to say a flat no to a key witness supporting a complainant by sitting in on the complainant's interview? She had responsibility to do more than say it was not ideal?

In every folie à deux there’s a primary individual.

And there is usually a mutual obsession, which is felt much more strongly by one of the parties than the other.

The FBI has done some groundbreaking research on this very dangerous dynamic. It often is initiated by the chance meeting of individuals both of whom harbour an immature and hidden desire for revenge on others.

Their meeting precipitates a sequence of events whereby they cause damage to others, partly as a way of controlling and managing intrusive (sometimes subconscious) feelings of inadequacy and/or shame.

The parties in these relationships are often intelligent people, though harbouring those immaturities and insecurities, and can present well before it all starts fracturing.

This is mad, I've now got 4 browsers open

Mumsnet
Live TT on X
TT on Thread Reader
The Scotsman live updates

so women are to be forced to stay in a situation that they feel uncomfortable in?

screams into a pillow

Worse - her manager ED - told her she’d find out and didn’t tell her the proper process to make a higher complaint… while simultaneously telling other colleagues that SP was a racist, anti-trans Trump lover IB her briefing for the “official” IX…

I’m confused.
i thought we had ED start an IX even tho she was a witness (and clearly didn’t do a good IX anyway).
Then LM got involved with an IX from February after the solicitor’s letter - IX2
So what the hell is AG doing getting more interviews after SP’s suspension was lifted - IX3??

it's absolutely the E. E can take a man who has never cried in his life to crying every five minutes over anything. Detrans males actually report missing being able to cry so freely once they come off E, which I found interesting as I always thought 'boys don't cry' was more about societal emotional repression, rather than women actually being more inclined to cry due to our naturally occurring hormones.

There's nothing unsafe about someone leaving a room (or a lift) that you're in!

If they stay in it and beat you up, that's another matter.

We won’t though.

Well exactly, I might go to the loo and think "oh flip sake, I've broken a nail, I should get my wee manicure kit out of my bag", and leave for that reason.

Another person assuming I left because of them is obviously suffering from main character syndrome. Which is common in a certain demographic.

The class issue is also relevant to Searle's behaviour. Upton is a well connected (upper) middle class doctor, Sandie is a working class nurse, clearly not with money behind her. Sandie, she would have thought, could not afford decent representation at an ET, Upton could. His union would back him, hers would not.

This was probably subconscious but still affecting hr rection. I would bet Searle still thinks she was right but she also thinks she needs to reflect, not on what she did wrong but on how it will affect her.

Am I misremembering something from part 1 of the tribunal- I thought Sandie was told by someone that there was nothing they would do about CRoom issue and she would have say something herself?
Is that completely in my imagination?

So disappointing to see yet another Fife employee who was clearly incapable of engaging her brain. Did she notice that Upton was a bloke? If so, did she think that this had any relevance, just perhaps?
How can a grown adult be so indoctrinated/cowed/just plain stupid *

• strike out which do not apply

<delurks>

I think LM was just 'reviewing the suspension' not doing the ix

That’s my recollection. She went to her line manager who first said I’ll look into it and then said nothing I can do. So SP said she’d say something herself then.

On twitter now https://x.com/Sorelle_Arduino/status/1948302577654767920

SCOTLAND: FIFE Labour councillor David Graham, 43, has been found guilty of sexually abusing a 15YO girl over 6+ months. Abuse happened in his home, office & car. He groomed her with gifts & left DNA on a towel. He now faces jail. Labour are 'excluding' him from

David Graham isn’t just a Labour Councillor, he was on the board at NHS Fife where women are being monstered for refusing to undress in front of men Have you joined the dots yet?

If you're a narcissist everything is because of you.

AG is a clinical nurse manager. Not Sandies direct manager though, as far as I can tell.

Agree, and also think KS semi-admitted it when she said that she and Upton could be trusted because they are doctors, as though nurses don't have to comply with professional standards.

IIRC, I think she waited outside for DU to leave, so it was probably obvious that she had left because of him. And indeed that is the reason that she left.

Completely rational behaviour from a woman who doesn't consent to share a changing space with a man. A space the man shouldn't have been in in the first place!

Thank you. I hope this comes up again. There's alot of leaning on (especially in the final line of KS testimony) and inferred in disciplinary, that the issue was Sandie didn't follow proper channels- should have gone to management first.
This was confusing me because I had a recollection of that.
Perhaps we can track down that part from part 1?

Not quite. She was told by ED there was nothing they could do, Whilst some on here have said that ED told her she would have to say something to Upton herself, the evidence appears to be that she said that to ED, not the other way around.

Upton appears more and more to be the limpest of limp lettuces, despite his posturing - or, what was previously referred to in Scots as a 'big jessie'.

Yeah she'd asked twice and just got a big shrug it seems. The manager did not tell her to take matters into her own hands, but didn't respond when she said she'd have to say something and didn't offer any alternative course of action.

You want one of those banks of clocks, showing the time in Fife, Holyrood, Glasgow, Dubai, and Nairn. To cover all bases.

Discussing Uptons contemporaneous phone notes..And why didn't she write in her meeting notes that he had recorded these on his phone ? Floundering and stuttering a bit now