NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #40

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39

I absolutely adore JKR and this coming from a woman who has never read or seen any of the Harry Potter stuff she is such a brave person to not only come out as supportive of womens rights but she does put her money where her mouth is because she knows every day women would struggle with the costs of say an employment tribunal and i am so grateful we have someone with the guts to say what needs to be said she is awesome!!
Plus in 100 years when they look back on this truly mental time and when their version of QI is on TV and they bring up women’s rights campaigners which Sandi Toksvig likes to do constantly because you know she is a feminist right.. just one who sticks up for men, and thinks us lowly peasants just havent spoke to a trans person! well it wont be Sandi they celebrate as a champion of womens rights it will be JKR and honestly in my opinion thats an even better legacy than Harry Potter!!

I read so much Terry Pratchett that I forget that hag can be used as an insult. And that reminds me - in my head Bez's Fifer is a MacNacFeegle cousin of Rob Anybody. Maybe named Curt O'Porta (am aiming for something riffing off Court Reporter).

Am following this avidly and have mastered the art of scrolling-on where necessary and utterly gripped elsewhere.

Good grief. Does that this mean that every time and for every conceivable circumstance that women have to keep going back to the SC for another judgement? There’s been one for the Scottish govts policy on policy boards, but another separate one will be needed for prisons. Another one for hospitals. Another one for RRCs and so on. Won’t the SC get fed up with such an expensive and time consuming process?!

I fear she will be in the retirement at 67 + band, unless she gets an early retirement offer and they don’t do those so much nowadays.

She's a busybody though!

Frankly ETs have such strict deadlines that DU might be out of time to bring a ET claim. Especially as the NHS treated him well, so whatever discriminatory act he might want to claim could be well defended and therefore he might not easily be able to complain about a continued course of mistreatment (which would allow him to complain about events older than 3 months).

First witness has been seated. The barristers are present. Just waiting for the judge and panel to arrive

Apparently her opinions didn't have much affect when she ran up against Charlotte Myles

I have seen this so many times. Women in younger generations to me, who benefitted from equal treatment through school, uni and work etc. then bam they choose to start a family and reality hits. The women who went before did so much for equality but there is that point where sex really does matter - motherhood.

I was about to post something similar. If I'd been in Kate Searle's position, I'd have gone running to HR with Dr Upton's complaint as fast as my little legs would have carried me, and I'd have followed whatever advice they gave me to the letter. And yet it sounds as if HR were sidelined and, judging by those emails, not for the first time as they sound quite resigned to their advice being ignored.

Thanks @prh47bridge Yes I agree, their witnesses don't seem to be helping their case much

But where do KS's requests for advice from someone with experience of dealing with a hate incident fit in with the undoubted arrogance and self belief? It's in her emails to the 19 consultants and to ED. She even told Esther 'it's completely new to me'.

Edit for typo.

It's proof that whatever EDI is, it's outside the remit of HR.

HR is supposed to enforce legal compliance with equality law and protected characteristics and foster a safe working environment for all. So if EDI isn't doing that, what is it doing?

Got up early today, did 3 hours work (am freelance) and am ready for another astounding day in this ridiculous situation we find ourselves in. How the hell did we get here, I just cannot wrap my head around it at all. Anyway haud on tae yer breeks lassies 🤣

I know an experienced social worker who lost her job because she'd pointed out the fact that Dylan Mulvaney wasn't in fact, a woman, but a gay man. She was unable to get legal representation and last I heard was working in a supermarket, just to make ends meet. Absolutely disgraceful, and I wonder how many of these cases are that never get to see the light of day? So many lives ruined and so many women silenced due to this insane ideology.

Now you’re letting reality get in the way of the law. If NHS Fife have taught us anything it’s that reality is unnecessary 🤣

Fife Leader staunin by!

So why did she ask him (when he joined the team) which toilets he wanted to use??

The stupid lies do my head in. They wouldn’t fool a 10 year old, for crying out loud.

reminder of TT on Nitter
Tribunal Tweets (@tribunaltweets) | nitter.poast.org

There are 260+ posts on this thread ALREADY!
Nauticant - I bet you didn't think you were signing up for this long stint! You are wonderful, thank you so much

I'm not sure but I think it involves crayons and rainbows.

Something I noticed from KS yesterday was that (at least from TT) she had never questioned at all what DU told her. Not just the facts of the case, but the motivation behind SP's behavior:

• SP waited until the CR was empty so there were no witnesses
• SP compared DU to Isla Bryson / a convicted rapist
• SP was blocking DU from leaving

These were presented as facts by DU to KS and accepted and repeated as fact by KS - not just internally to colleagues (which was wholly inappropriate anyway) but also to the Tribunal. To the extent that "SP mentioned Isla Bryson" nearly became an accepted fact in the case.

I'm interested by how unreflective KS seems to be. And how this seems to be a hallmark of the TRA movement - that the opinions and (in some cases lies) of people "on your side" is accepted reflexively as truth. And anything the "other side" says can't be trusted at all.

Witness is being sworn in and we're off

Wow! On time! Nearly.

We've started at 10.04. I'm shocked !!!

Fuck me, It's 10.04 and it has started. 😀