NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

If you're not getting posts deleted, you're not doing it right :)

It is brilliant innit!! She is doing a fantastic job!! 😁

When I do that I'm told it's not available because it's a Premium feature.

There isn't a chance in hell I'd expect any DEI officer to support women's issues.

Boom.

Suspension - last resort and not the first and they haven't even talked to her!

Wow.

Oh how lovely! They are jealous of our camaraderie and recipe tips. I bet they keep peeking for fashion and beauty chat.

Do they want a recipe for celeriac and pear soup?

Yep and when she was grilled interrogated questioned by NC about whether she should perhaps show her support for other PCs she claimed she did using the slightly odd top ally phrasing.

It was definitely the name that triggered the howling, it was precisely as NC read it out. The veil of 'confidentiality' was supposed to protect KS and make the allegation unverifiable. She was obviously arrogant enough to believe she was in control.

I feel very bad for the HCA who is being badmouthed on twitter, because the clumsy piecemeal reporting by some outlets makes it look as if the HCA's alleged reluctance to give a statement is a known fact.

There's nothing 'lowly' about someone who tells the truth in the face of a massive web of lies by those in authority. She deserves admiration, not the disrespect she has been getting so far.

Apologies if mentioned - I'm not caught up. If I send a new email it has all the burfull about where I work, logos, disclaimers etc. If I reply or forward it doesn't. I think NC is using it to suggest if it was the first email that would be there - if nothing else the "if you are not the intended recipient " disclaimer.

Yeah I need a shocked face emoji. Well, here's one.

Then again, given what it means for NHS Fife, maybe I'll go with

😅😹👻

What sort of organisation auto deletes emails after 30 days? I wouldn't be able to do my job. I'm working on 'projects' that often last 60-90 days where I often need to refer to earlier emails to clarify details and then I need to keep those emails for much longer than that to demonstrate an audit trail.

Can you imagine... Hello Line Manager, do you remember that very detailed email I sent you back in April where I told you a patient's Father was going to report us to the Coroner because we might have made some mistakes which may have led to the death of his son?

Line Manager - sorry no, can't remember and after searching my inbox and sent items I have no record of you emailing me. It was probably deleted after 30 days.

Methinks someone is telling porkies....

Personal experience of prep for an inquest - a proper one with a jury and serious risk to the trust

Email goes out asking everyone to check their emails for anything relevant.
Nobody bothers.
Years go by waiting for the hearing.
All emails deleted by this point.

Except for one very assiduous nurse who not only kept all her relevant emails, she also sat and read the whole bundle and pointed out the key evidence hidden away on page 1598 to our barrister and legal team, who hadn't noticed it.

So sadly I think this is probably typical of how the NHS prepares for any type of court case.

They’re still seen as optional in my NHS, that is still waiting for ‘further guidance’ before allowing same sex facilities rather than imagined gender.

@MillieMoggie I have work emails going back years, all tidily organised into relevant folders. When I have to work on a project, I can go back and see what we did for the customer 5 years ago, what questions we asked them, what issues arose.... (we do have some project management tools, but there's nothing like going back to source).

celeriac and pear? sounds more like a dessert 😋

A bedtime giggle

https://x.com/coldcoffee23567/status/1948107997668126783

a response to JR calling Sandie Peggie "Miss Piggy"

Following this case has really taken me back..So many memories of my time in the NHS that I rarely think about these days, but when I do it just makes me so angry all over again.
I was admittedly naive when I joined. I had this idea that everyone was super professional and caring. The NHS was a tightly run ship with the highest of standards. While there were many excellent people who were a credit to their profession, I have also never seen so much bullying, incompetence and corruption in my entire working life.
The abuse, the cover ups. I could write a book.

Of course, not all hospitals are bad and some trusts are much better than others. But Fife is not an exception or anomaly (as knottyauties audit thread proves). These low standards and behaviours are widespread across the NHS and I wonder if it will ever change. Every time a trust gets caught up in a scandal (of which there have been many) all they do is sack a few people, the head honcho might resign but just move to another trust, the board will put out some pathetic 'lessons learned' statement and just carry on as usual.
I occasionally speak to former colleagues. Well, the few remaining ones that haven't already left and they assure me that things haven't improved and in fact are much worse than before.

It makes me sad and angry in equal measures that these people operate with so little consequence.

This guy does a daily summary on Twitter. Safe to say he takes a GC view, but he's not factually inaccurate, just very scathing of the absolute fuckwittery.

This is today's: x.com/boswelltoday/status/1948052894344720820

I went to the hospital library today to do some e-learning. They had a table with all the day's newspapers, so of course I picked up a copy of The Times to pass the time while the computer fired up and logged me in. I may have missed it but I didn't see a single article about the SP trial.
I know there have been some good articles in the Times, but maybe not all make it into the print version? So it's probably quite easy to miss out on the news about this, especially as we are all invested and looking for it.

By the way, I'm late to the celeriac party here...

Celeriac (and potato) cakes.

Grate some celeriac, and if you want, some potato. Add a little flour and an egg, with salt and pepper, and parsley if you have it. Heat oil in a saucepan, add large spoonfuls of celeriac mixture and fry on both sides till cooked.

While we are talking casting - I have had this feeling that there is an actor that reminds me of DU but couldn't put a name it.

But today I had my deja vu moment. DH is rewatching "Musketeers" season 3 and I realised it's Andre Flynn who plays the scheming Gaston.

I think that if I delete an email, it goes into the Deleted Items folder - then that’s what is emptied / deleted after 30 days. But not emails in my inbox
(I have nhs.scot email account)

I'd like to see Mr Menno on the steno/piano in the corner. Bursting into relevant song after the barristers and witnesses contributions

Uncanny!

This is my personal opinion - I think she came over very poorly, for a senior doctor in a position of responsibility.

The crying came over as fake, as opportunity to make the racist allegations about the claimant. Obviously identity of the HCA and her evidence was already known to Sandy, so KS referring to her evidence in court wasn’t going to change anything.

An A&E consultant will have seen very distressing cases at work eg children badly injured or killed in accidents . It’s not plausible that she was reduced to tears at the ( spurious ) concern that one nurse might say mean things to one HCA at some time in the future. There are systems in place to deal with such an incident if it ever occurred.

She also stated that SP had involved that witness ( the ones whose name made her so upset ) when in fact it was Dr U.

Her concern / distress seemed even more fake given that she showed not a flicker of insight or sympathy for the claimant about what had ACTUALLY happened to her. Unlike Charlotte Myles who at least pretended to understand that the employer has a duty of care to both parties.

KS seemed to deliberately misunderstand questions from NC eg when it was put to her that a conversation had taken place ( but the witness didn’t remember the CONTENT ) she tried to argue with NC that the witness was contradicting herself. It was clear KS was saying this because that witness contradicted the account of Dr U.

KS only admitted her own very serious misconduct when pressed by counsel. It would have looked better if she showed that she had reflected on these mistakes.

She didn’t acknowledge her serious error of adding details / elaborating on the datix about the CR complaint , instead of making it a factual account.

She did not come across a believable on the matter of the missing emails.

She showed no understanding of her professional duty to treat all colleagues with respect, not just the one you like.

Her statement of love and loyalty to Dr U did not come across well. I imagine that she saw it as some sort of character reference, but in fact it just showed that NHSF didn’t even TRY to treat each party equally and fairly.

Her many “ I don’t recall “ statements were not believable . Especially when she seemed to recall other things ( that did not reflect badly on her ) in great detail.

Again, just my opinion.