NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

Perhaps she has another make believe witness who can prove it

Yay pete has returned

Hypothetical plumber who stands in for Dr Upton in scenarios

This is so painful to watch.

Malice (1993), a neo-noir thriller starring Alec Baldwin as Dr. Jed Hill, a surgeon whose arrogance and actions deeply affect a newlywed couple. The movie prominently features a scene where Baldwin's character, in a deposition, famously declares, "I am God," when discussing his surgical abilities and the trust placed in him by patients. (Google summary)

FFs give me a break

KS would not have known what sex DU was assigned at birth!

JR's job is to protect the defence from sticky issues. If she's intervened its because she knows this leads no where good.

Pete is a hypothetical male comparator NC uses to illustrate some points.

Pete the plumber 6”2” built like a rugby player, short hair, manly man.

And no visual difference between Pete and DrU to Sandie.

NC - all SP has done is the equivilent of saying go away Pete

GO AWAY PETE t-shirt please, size M😃

KS wouldn't have known DU was a trans women if he hadn't have told her

From TT:

NC - under oath, credibility important, saying you woundn't know DU was a TW unless told?
KS - wouldn't have known what sex DU assigned at birth

<bangs head on desk and weeps>.

WHAT THE FUCK AM I LISTENING TO?

Hahaha....JR saying Dr Upton is not obviously a man. JR needs to go to Specsavers and check her eyes again.. . As does Searle.

Saying under oath that she would not have known what sex Upton was assigned at birth if he hadn't told her. That she would never have known he wasn't a woman

Oh for crying out loud! You're blind or lying!!

And not fit to be a consultant

They always do try that, yet they're always the ones making the racist comments. It's very common for MRAs/TRAs to be racist as well as homophobic. They're the full trifecta of MRA Toxicity; misogyny, homophobia and racism.

From TT

NC - if Pete walks in, do you agree the decent thing to do is leave and apologise
JR - object DU not a man
J - hypothetical is fine
KS - if a man walks in he's in hte wrong place
NC - should leave
KS 0 in wrong place yes
NC - F CR is the wrong place?
KS - yese

Fifer : get thae breeks back up Pete.

NC - i fPete says I'm a woman that's OK
KS - not saying that.
NC - agree if Pete goes in, shuts the door and refuses to leave thats intimidating
KS - hypotheitcal Pete, yes
NC - even if many women
KS - yes
NC - OK for women to say leave
KS - yes
NC - no legal diff btwn Pete and DU, if so - it's the same
KS - no
NC - will address in submissions
NC - all SP has done is the equivilent of saying go away Pete
KS - told the approach was not like that
NC - only continues because DU didn't leave, stood ground conv continued.
KS - no DU says tried to end it
NC - SP tried to reason, he says asked about chromasomes, we say not, but not offensive
KS - yes it is invasive and intimidating
NC - it's a polite way of discussing fact of body not mentioning genitals. You might think it's more polite
JR - object, DU is not obviously a man

Fifer : eh, your mileage micht vary on that. Seems tae be subjective m'laird.

JR - not pu tto the witness
NC - will put it, DU is obviously a man
KS - no
NC - under oath, credibility important, saying you woundn't know DU was a TW unless told?
KS - wouldn't have known what sex DU assigned at birth
NC - he said just like person in prisons, agreed

Thanks. So NC invokes Pete to show that DU in cr is no different to Pete the Plumber?

Pete!!!!
🍷🚽

JR: DU is obviously not man, even though he has a wife, is over 6ft tall and has hairy feet.

Nope, the gender reassignment PC doesn't require you to have GRC just be undergoing or proposing to undergo transition.

I think Rhianna is a red herring? Isn't she from the other alleged patient safety incident?

If the name of the healthcare woman who is being discussed does get mentioned in the procedings, can I suggest that we refrain from mentioning it here? If it is true that she doesn't want to be dragged through the press and social media, and feels that her mixed race status would make this even worse for her, I would absolutely not want to contribute ahything that made things more difficult for her.

Aye, sure.

DrU’s evidence is undermining KS’ credibility.

It's fucking bonkers that it's come to this

Mother of God.

”I’m kind”

in a court of law

And then insinuating that a witness, known to have disputed DU’s version of events, didn’t want to get involved bc she was afraid of SP’s views on her race? And this alleged situation made KS - to whom it would be potentially helpful - break down in tears?

fml

(Also sobering to realise that KS will have had the experience, as an ED consultant, of having had people die under her care; and yet the emotional resilience that must come with that does not extend to professional self-defence in the courtroom. Perhaps the tears have been caused by her own self-image crumbling.)

I don't think that's an agreed fact...