NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

@NoBinturongsHereMate last thread full before I could reply, that's interesting about annual data protection training including that.

She's crying because she knows she's likely got consequences coming her way etc. and because she knows it's the only place left to hide. NC has unearthed everything they tried to bury.

The agreed facts do not state that SP referred to a person. JR did a good job for her client in confusing the issue.

I think you get to swing a cane and eat vicodin like sweets too.

Tweezers. Oddly satisfying

She's a doctor who doesn't understand biology.
Shes kind but doesn't think about those shes been told are the enemy and is quite happy to be judge, jury and executioner for them without thinking about how things impact them too.
She trustworthy until she's asked about sex and gender at which point she loses the fucking plot.
She's honest in that she really didn't think she'd be caught with a bunch of emails the court asked her provide and she failed.

Its not our fucking problem if shes having a sudden ientity crisis.

Quite, if the first time that a complaint had been made about a man in the women's CR, alternative arangments had been made for that man then it wouldn't have come to this.

It hurts so bad.

Worth remembering that Fife NHS did not find adequate evidence to support the complaints made by Upton.

How can Naomi run her case, if she's not allowed to say that Upton is a man? The whole case hangs on this.
I'm really concerned that the Judge said that this fact is disputed.
Really really concerned.

I recommend the small wax strips for upper lip hairs you get from Poundland. Fits big toes perfectly and not that painful.

He's not the only one.

Well we have all been there over the last few days.

I can just picture the 2026 billboard campaign for doctor recruitment at Kirkcaldy's Victoria Hospital.

"You don't HAVE to be a deluded, craven, lying, shit-stirring, self-pitying, incompetent, biology-denying, braindead, emotionally incontinent moron to work here ... but it sure does help."

I'd imagine that to withdraw an agreed fact you'd need very good grounds, which here could possibly apply, but also materiality, which I'm much less sure about.

I thought we established she could way back when? Because it’s germane to the case.

I thought DU testimony was that Bryson was not mentioned. Just the situation in prisons and he assumed Bryson.

sounds like a badly-worded agreed fact, doesn't it? Shouldn't have crept in, but dunno what they do about it now.

Perhaps someone could wax my toes as I’m already screaming into a pillow?

Use 'see all' to find nauticant's/OP's post giving chronology of witnesses in February, then cross reference with TT substack -> thread unrolls for actual testimony. I'd give you the link, but I can't remember where I found it - maybe via TT account on twitter.

Nah. He's sent Pete out to score him some crack.

Time for the big guns. 🔫🔫🔫

I think what upset the judge was Naomi slipping in the reference to FWS saying that a (i.e., any) transwoman is a man - that seemed to him to be going too far.

Also is there a word or phrase to describe someone who is visually and biologically identical to Pete i.e. in my thought experiment identical to Dr. Upton in every sense except gender identity?

If "man" isn't allowed isn't bigoted we need something else

In philosophy and ethics these thought experiments are a common way of arguing. I.e. everyone has heard of the ethical question of a train at a junction going to run one person over, do you change it's direction to run 5 people over etc.

JR read out some piece of testimony - possibly from SP herself? that Bryson WAS mentioned.
NC did some legal-talk about it, and I think that's why the judge has gone away for a think?

It is important, because it goes to SP's manner of addressing DrU - she is entitled to her opinions [yeah right] but must not assert them in an offensive way, and KS has said that making a comparison to a trans rapist is offensive to a TW.

I think even the judge is being careful not to get Full on TRA rage against him.

She's not accepting the complaints process and is still throwing yet more accusations out there. Onces that she din't report through due process so can't be counted as anything more than hearsay.

Hearsay of course could constititute harassment if not adequately dealt with