NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #36

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35

Also this pdf of letters to have open in a separate tab from@justabaker:

drive.google.com/file/d/1U2v-CNXvWE_hqbpUQO3PTmjXHbu2pUwj/view

Caught up again thank fuck

We seem to be running through 2-3 threads per day so I think 45 is a good guess

Did that request come from the Chair of NHS Fife?! 😂😂😂

Re thr 'quiet part put loud' on the previous thread - it's not the de-linking of transness and sexuality; it's the part in brackets.

They said that if you are trans an attracted to the same gender you are straight. The usual argument is that this would count as gay. Eg man identifies as a woman, is attracted to women. Upton claimed this makes him a lesbian, but the Fife website info says it makes him a straight man.

But if gender isn't sex? I can't make head nor tail of any of the thinking behind all this.

Arghhhh. I've got "There's a guy works down the chip shop" as an ear worm, now. But the Terry Pratchett version.

You can see why counsel needed a flow chart at the Supreme Court.

It doesn't look like anyone is doing much thinking

Even a bigot can hold protected beliefs

It is striking that nearly every accusation of bigotry is projection; the person calling others bigots always seems to the one most intolerant of others beliefs. Thus Sandie was disciplined due to the bigotry of NHS Fife and its managers.

I think I can see how we end up with a bazillion [gender + sexual preference] identies tho. Maybe a slight exaggeration but every time I think I've heard it, I hear something new (to me).

I missed yesterday morning. Did we hear anything more about the press statement?

It’s only available to the public for personal inspection by attendance at the court in Dundee. I believe MF went there and transcribed the infamous emails by hand. Also a journalist from The Herald published some details of the internal Fofe investigation against SP, the one where they found insufficient evidence to support the allegations against her. But the bundle is not available online, by order of the court.

@ickky and @ThatCyanCat , neither of those but I like your thinking. It's one of his more recent, irritating, appropriately enough, ones.

Everyone is hyping up KS's appearance today. I'm hoping it's not going to be a let down!

We all are until they finish the private bit

With these delays I can’t see them completing KS today let alone the forensics guy.

But now Lauren Harris is no longer a witness they are maybe rejigging?

Why? Are you suggesting there's no such thing? I was explaining that the defence are trying to show that SP's actions were motivated by transphobia, which wouldn't be considered as legitimate for a work discrimination claim.

You are wrong about this. Even if SP hates trans people she is still entitled to female only changing facilities at work. She was not provided with these and then was severely punished for challenging this unlawful policy. It's irrelevant what her motivation for not wanting to share with a man is. We all have our different reasons for not wanting to undress in front of men and we shouldn't be obliged to voice those reasons before an organisation implements the law of the land.

Went on x to look at picture of KS and was made a bit sad by the comments about her appearance, it felt a bit like a baying mob (I’m not a lot on X so I get this might be normal). If we are appalled about a woman like SP being piled on by the world surely it’s a bit hypocritical to relish it happening to another women no matter what her views are. I admit that the emails are awful and I have no idea how she will try to justify them, but she has been condemned without giving her side and thrown under the bus by numerous colleagues (sounds familiar) Good for her for turning up, head held high. I respect bravery wherever I see it

I'm wondering if something magical happens when we get to the 40th page of the 40th thread, like the seventh son of a seventh son.

Perhaps we all turn into pumpkins, or Pete the Plumber becomes real.

thanks @nauticant - has running these thread become a full time job for you? Anyhoo, thank you.

I can't tell where I am in the room - black screen, no sound, I can see some observers names, but not action or sound

Bit confused about where I am.

Was on WFTCHTJ but then it said ‘Welcome to the conference’ but I entered into a dark room with a white blanked out camera symbol at the top.

There’s a crown court logo and it says the number of people in the room.

I can’t see the side menu with other people listed.

Am I in the court pre-connection or in the lobby?

If you don’t present a witness for cross-examination does that mean they have to pull all their evidence?

TT : still nothing to report