NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #35

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34

I’ve been sitting on the old thread like a good person 🙄

I hope the judge will significantly increase the compensation awarded to SP for Fife repeatedly bringing up these unfounded allegations. In my view, he should also be thinking about referring JR's conduct to the Bar Council. Barristers are prohibited from making serious allegations against anyone participating in a case without reasonable grounds, especially if the allegations are irrelevant to the case or could be damaging to the reputation of others. I cannot see any reasonable grounds for JR repeatedly bringing up the allegations of racism and homophobia. There does not appear to be any proof. And the allegations are clearly irrelevant to the case and damaging to SP's reputation.

This is my wild take, I have no idea of lottie's sexuality. But... If someone suggested to her that Sandy was homophobic and was not kind to her own daughter. I'm thinking they were trying to paint a negative picture of Sandie so that she would dislike her, and this would influence Lottie to take sides and keep her on suspension.

Maybe JR got a bit carried away and thought she had a jury to impress, forgot she is addressing a seasoned judge who can spot the cold sweat of desperation at a hundred metres.

Suppose it's true that Sandie made racist and homophobic comments at work. (There is no evidence for this.) If this was true, wouldn't it simply reflect very badly on NHS Fife that they took no action to address it? It would suggest that they are not as committed to defending the principles of the Equality Act as they claim. I can't see any advantage to JR pursuing this line of questioning other than, as a PP said, to give the Reddit TRAs a stick to beat Sandie with.

JR has asked several witnesses now for specifics about Sandie's racist and bigoted views. Every time similar answers. Details of things she's allegedly said but all followed up with - not documented, hearsay etc.
But still she gets it in there.

Who exactly is trying to steer public opinion now ? Trying to get 'Nurse called a medic a P' 'Nurse hates her lesbian daughter' in the headlines for the court of public opinion?

So that even if she wins the case, she will forever be known as a hateful bigot.

I have lost any respect I ever had for Jane Russell.

JC=JR?
I'm not sure that absolutely anything goes in defending your client - but I don't know.

Can you slander a witness using an accusation that has been dismissed because there is no evidence - it's easy to forget that Fife has already cleared SP of all allegations, all of this theatre has an air of unreality because SP has been cleared.

The 'don't mention the trillions of NHSF statements from Friday' thing has made it all seem strange too.

JR bringing this up just made her and NHSF look worse than ever.

Either there's loads of other misconduct issues they could and should have documented and addressed through a structured disciplinary process. There should be written evidence of the paper trail.

Or these are made up gossipy nastiness and rumours that were primarily spread by senior staff at key points in the suspension and investigation process.

There are no specific names, times, dates, witnesses or other evidence.

But they get to report it all and have it written into the court documents. Revolting.

I seriously questioned who JR was working for there.

🍭well done. Sorry it’s a bit rainbowy , it’s the only one they had in the shop.

I agree, @Chariothorses- all JR seems to be doing is emphasising that NHS Fife worked hard to smear Sandie Peggie’s character and professionalism because they desperately wanted to show DU what good trans allies they were. Is that really JR’s whole strategy?

Aw bless! Here, have an extra Tunnock for being such a good person

Well JR certainly managed to grab defeat at the end of the day - rather than just leaving it on rather positive things for her case that CM said about gender id and cr ....

JR seemed determined to prove that Fife was a total hotbed of malicious gossip against SP by throwing in the "3rd hand racism" allegations that were not reported, not recorded, date unknown and that the alleged subject cannot even remember being said.

Such a poor judgement to pursue this as it substantiates a smear campaign against SP based on gossip and slander

thank you to prh47bridge who had already answered this, things move so quickly here!!

I'm starting wondering JR and NC have formed a secret coalition. JR is making NHS Fife look worse every day

Well that was outrageous, I can't believe JR was allowed to do that.

Kate Searle tomorrow!

Jammie Dodger if he manages to swerve this court room 🤔

Anyone observing who can say whether the judge was making notes of the unevidenced allegations?

I've somehow missed knowing that the doctor said racism allegation was untrue and he didnt want to pursue it. Anyone know where that came from?

I'd expect if the judge made notes it would be "nasty tittle-tattle with no evidence and failure to report/ investigate if it happened. Must increase compensation to reflect bad conduct."

Would be great for all the knowledgeable people here to chip in to this wiki page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggie_v_NHS_Fife
Some updates made today

Yes, JR apologies. As prh47bridge kindly explained, no it doesn't and may well increase compensation or risk referral. However the Judge has allowed it, and anyway as it was part of the process it would get in anyway.

Not a lawyer but this is one of the issues of joint defence. Dr. Upton isn't liable for eventual payout, NHS Fife is. He can demand (I can imagine that) emphasis on points not really in NHS Fife's interest. Not that they've noticed.

PS My autocorrect wants now "NHS Fires" which seems appropriate the number of pants are now on fire. Big girl pants and otherwise!

Correct - it was DU's "assumption" not what was actually said. I think I read that even DU had backtracked on that as well at the internal inquiry

So JR has essentially proven that EITHER:

• People say racist and homophobic things at NHS Fife all the time but no-one reports it
• OR this whole thing against PS was based on nasty rumours invented to make her look bad

Playing to the outside world perhaps? Loading up the TRAs so they can trash SP rep further? There was no need for this other than for that.

This I thought was an interesting question:

From TT

J: You were asked bcs Angie Shephard ill - do you know when she went off?
CM: No, sorry J: And she came back?
CM: I think mid April, it was 19/4 I was told to step away bcs AS would take over.

Which implies that they were trying to get rid of CM from the process? Why get someone to take over at that point. Perhaps KS et al were unhappy with her questions and desire to get SP back to work

Is it at all possible/likely that Kate Searle is sticking by the rules and not following the action, that she doesn't know she is well and truly cooked?
She must be feeling not unlike Anne Boleyn on the night before her execution, albeit without the (admittedly very small) consolation of knowing she did nothing wrong.

I'd lay a fairly generous bet that she'll be a No Show tomorrow, and call in sick (not sure what the rules are for witnesses calling in sick but in all honesty she probably really will be). Though I'd say it hardly matters. True we will all miss out on the massive dose of schadenfreude watching (not literally, but via TT and other sources) her being eviscerated, hung drawn and quartered by Naomi, but the damage is all done already. The evidence is there. There's not a single thing she can say to make matters any better for anyone, herself, DU, or anyone else at NHS Fife.

I was surprised at Maya publishing her transcript of the smoking gun email, in fact I'm surprised it was allowed legally. On balance I think it would have been better if she hadn't - it will certainly be an added reason why KS may cry off tomorrow, and she could publish it later anyway.

Anyone know how old KS is? I'm thinking a prolonged period off sick for stress could possibly segue into early retirement. That would be my preferred option in her shoes, but then in her shoes I wouldn't have sent that email.