NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #35

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34

I have been kicked, is anyone still in or has it ended for the day?

As the quip goes, if you have the law on your side but not the facts, pound the law; if you have the facts on your side but not the law, pound the facts. And if you have neither the law nor the facts on your side, pound the table.

This is table pounding.

You should never ask a question that you don't already know the answer to. I learned that from Vera, but I can bet that's why Naomi didn't press on this.

NC did object when they were first raised during Sandie's testimony back in February.

JR prompting the discussion of alleged racist slur came not v long after NC raised example of people with religious views needing SS spaces. Given the overlap between religion and ethnicity/culture/modesty, it seems as though the resurfacing of racism allegations was probably a strategic measure to try to split the support base for each side.

Vile and deliberate to sour the end of CM's testimony that had a lot in it to support the other side.

Not sure JRs final questions actually helped her case, they just further highlighted that the NHS has also not acted in a timely or appropriate manner to other serious allegations.

I hate to say this, I've been really fair to JR ad respectful of her role as an advocate BUT it looks like these accusations of homophobia and racism are being thrown to the TRAs as ammo for attacking SP on Reddit etc.

Why else? Does she think that the members of the tribunal and the judge are so shallow that they will stroke their chins and say - very little evidence that SP did anything wrong...Fife not very organised... SP suffered a lot of negative consequences ... SC ruling... but she's clearly a nasty rightwing racist transphobe, so let's find for Fife!

It really looks like playing to the trans gallery. I hope I'm wrong.

JR really stuck her own foot in her mouth with those follow up questions. CM had spent all afternoon emphasising that un recorded gossip should play no part in evidence based work related issues and that she had studiously ignored it and indeed called out colleagues who tried to use it (erm most of it at any rate) and at the first opportunity JR upends a whole bag of spiteful tittle tattle horse poo right back into the arena.

Bad move.

Honestly I am shook that you can bring things up in court in which there is zero evidence for.

I was in and out a couple of times but listening. It was not a dramatic day but it did not do much for the Rs case.

If it was the letter from SP's solicitor that prompted action or some other policy that prompted action - when she looked at the paperwork, the suspension was not supported.

And JR desperately trying to get 'racist' 'homophobe' 'transphobe' into the minds of the court but does not seem to be succeeding.

Did Esther Davison say anything about racist, etc?

Well that was a bit of an anti climax for the end of day.

JR: IX interview 'SP held strong beliefs' this is about DU trans status is this true
SP - no problem with TW status, just that DU allowed in the CR.
JR - she was allowed to use the CR because she was a TW, and that's what you disliked
SP - i did dislike DU in the CR
Jr - you are also intolerant of people of other races
NC - I'm sorry how is this relevant ?
NC - it seems to be a general attack on Cs character.
J - how will this help us in our decision in this case
JR - by analogy, to intolerance of race is also to intolerance of trans people
J - wide latitude in x examination, I will allow, but I hope it will be short chapter

Part 2 on 4th of Feb if anyone wants to read further. Judge doesn't sound impressed imho.

Another tangential comment here, but just wanted to say thank you to everyone for the Scots / Gaelic language lessons - I loved Bammers and Droughty, and for the Fifeisms @bezmills and others. @butchyrestingface - shoogly peg is my favourite of today! May all of NHSFife’s pegs be shoogly…

Can anyone legal advise please as I don't understand...

JR is ensuring staff repeatedly report the 'gossip and bitch' about Sandie being racist, homophobic, a Trump supporter, transphobic etc (ie all the usual insults aimed at GC women over the years!!)- for which there is lots of vague hearsay, no evidence, and has in part been contradicted (Sandie's daughter gave evidence for her mum, the doctor denied she's used the P word etc)....

I realise she's just trying to make mud stick but it's got to a point that reading it it seems like just further victimisation of Sandie by NHS, and to me reflects badly on JR as a KC not just the NHS team.

What is the benefit of her doing this, and are there any risks (ie will the judge see it for the targetted cruelty it seems to be?)

Spiteful tittle tattle being repeated. All hearsay

And again Jamie Doyle is mentioned but has not been called...

I read the Herald with be "live blogging" as "live boggling" and tbh both are equally true.

Not just zero evidence but actually anti-evidence. The reported "victim" clearly stated they did not recall the comment and did not want to pursue a report.

Surely the judge will have no truck with JR bringing up hearsay that has nothing to do with the case? And, if so, why doesn't JR realise this? Or is she just desperate now?

The whole racism and homophobia angle appepars to be just throwing shit and hoping some of it sticks.

Its implausible that Sandie was being racist and/or homophobic at work and not one person reported it. Unless that kind of behaviour was common place that no one batted an eyelid and decided they had a responsibility to report it. So which is it, NHS fife?

Same as the patient safety allegation, again if it happened, no one reported it. Why?

I think it's been clearly established that JR is twaw. Also the there's a conflict between the two respondents, Fife and Upton, that she is acting for. Purely speculating here but, I think it's arguable that she'd save Upton before Fife.

Thanks for the new thread, @nauticant

Well, that was an afternoon! Have we found out what was said before it start this morning? Who did the datix? And is there anything SP can do about the targeted bullying that CM has admitted her bosses did? Telling tales and gossiping when doing a professional job.

Also, remember that JC is acting under instructions from her clients. One of them being DU, a trans rights activist. So it isn't surprising this racist etc slurs is in there, it doesn't necessarily reflect on JC.

Sandie's daughters clearly love their mum and are close to her.

It is deeply unpleasant for others to report completely unsubstantiated allegations.

I thought it was disputed that she compared Dr Upton to a prisoner convicted of rape?

I thought that it was only agreed that she referred to the situation in prisons?

That last bit by JR really was shocking.

This may have been asked before but is there a reason the court day is so short? You're barely getting 4 hours or so of hearings.