NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #35

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34

But there's literally no evidence of that, is there?

No. It's the same logic of TW being lesbians. Two men in a relationship mustn't be gay if one identifies as a woman. That's what they mean. "Gender" means sex when they want it to.

Laudanum? Wouldn't usually recommend it, but...

Why ask you to define it? Because when you say transphobia is illegal, there is a strong suspicion that you include in the definition of transphobia a lot of behaviour that is very legal.

We all agree transphobia is illegal. But you and I probably don’t agree what behaviour counts as transphobia.

Tbh, whatever happens, JR is going first so it's not going to get good until the afternoon.

Back in ye olden times a phobia was an extreme and irrational fear of something.

I don't think being cautious or worried about a man being in a confined space with no cameras and certain nudity is irrational.

The RCN has lost its way on gender ideology. Not just them but most other unions, including the teaching unions.

They seem to forget that most of their members are of the female sex. Without our subscriptions they would have neither the strength nor influence they currently enjoy.

How are we fixed with a new thread @nauticant - sorry to be presumptious and happy to help

So am i, no video or sound tho

Continuation thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36

Oo idk, JR has produced some clangers from her own witnesses.

I'll admit to a wry smile at the irony that after the nipping yesterday about posters having a chat about random things while waiting for the tribunal to begin and the associated handwringing of it being unfair on the OP because it lengthened the thread, that there have been pages and pages of engagement this morning with a disruptor who has themselves asked to be 'left alone' and regarding whose posts the OP has suggested not to engage with as it just leads to derailment of the thread....and its subsequent lengthening.

I would suggest transphobia in this instance might be evidenced if they could show SP would not work with DU at all. Objected to his presence in the ED. Similar. Which I think JR has tried and failed to show.

Transphobia is not objecting to a man in your SS CR. SP is objecting to his maleness. Not his PC of gender reassignment.

At least that’s how I am reading such evidence as I have seen so far.

And also, just because you're racist or homophobic (which there is zero evidence of Sandie being either) does not necessarily follow that you're also transphobic. In fact, lots of trans people have shown themselves to be homophobic and racist themselves. So, I don't see how them trying to show Sandie as being racist or homophobic has any relevance at all.

I've seen 'Being trans is not a sexual orientation, you can be trans and gay...etc'
before, it's not recent.

It is useful because it makes explicit that being trans, and being gay/lesbian, are separate identities. Transphobia is not the same as homophobia - in fact we've seen how homophobia can thrive in a trans context.

That for me is the 'quiet part out loud' , proving that the T should never have been bolted on to the LGB - it's a different thing - different identity, different issues, different history..
LGB✂T

My ear worm is a Billy Joel song, slightly reworded.

I may as well go make yet another cup of tea whilst we wait

@NebulousDogBollocking

Is it For The Longest Time?

Tea, 2 heaped sugars and a glob of milk for me, ta x

Also raises a lot more interest in our cause. I was rather blinkered but reading this forum shone a light for me. So once again I thank all of you for this and apologise for being late to the cause.

Have they said what’s causing the delay?

Has anyone got that bundle link handy and could post it again please? I may as well do something useful while we are waiting.

We Didn't Start the (Bin)Fire (At Fife)?

To some, transphobia is just defined as 'I'm trans and I am offended by that'

I'm not sure that this definition can be used as a basis for law

Continuation thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36