How does it even affect you? Just be kind.

[Shedmistress]

We all get this endlessly from every angle. Why do you care?
Why can't you just let this vulnerable group quietly get on with their lives?
It's just a tiny minority so go do something better with your day...

So I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread of 'ways it affects other people' and the effects of losing all logic, reason, sense of reality, and how health, safety and welfare are thrown out of the window the moment the word 'trans' is mentioned.

Please feel free to add your own with a link to what you are talking about. Especially documents relating to policy and processes that are wide open to abuse.

Tbf the national insurance number stays the same even if you transition. They just change the gender mark.

I assume though that the NI number is not tracked against convictions, or anything else for that matter - otherwise they would presumably give trans people a new one.

How do fraudsters, these people deliberating new IDs, get round the NI issue?

It’s been discussed at length. ANYONE CAN DO THAT AND COMMIT FRAUD.

Your opening post claims that trans people are ALLOWED to do it. They are not.

Anyone who does it is committing fraud. Trans people are not allowed to do that. You’re saying that they are. That is not true.

Actually no, my opening post said no such thing.

My second post said 'If you change your name because of 'trans' there is no mechanism to track your past history so it would be unbelievably simple for any ex criminal to just not put their old names down, not call the trans hotline and therefore dodge any checks on their history.'

It didn't claim that TRANS people could do anything, it claimed that ANY EX CRIMINAL can.

But they could always do that. It has absolutely nothing to do with trans people. At all. You don’t have to be trans to commit fraud. Trans guidance doesn’t allow for fraud.

A man can go from John Smith to Jack Smyth and do the exact same thing. You don’t need to claim trans to commit fraud.

What do you think the sensitive application team do?

Trans people have the same application rules as everyone else. They can try and commit fraud if they want, just like any other man could. It has nothing to do with being trans. They’re not allowed to do it. They cannot hide their criminal record legally.

You’re claiming that they have to change their names because of “trans” in order to do this. You also further repeated that in another post when you said they are only able to do it because of trans guidance. But it’s nothing to do with it. At all.

They are entirely separate issues.

issue 1 - name change confusion -
Anyone can change their name and attempt to commit fraud to hide a criminal record. This is completely unaffected by trans people or trans guidance or anything else trans. It’s always been a possibility and always will be unless DBS make changes.

issue 2 - the trans helpline and sensitivity -
after completely a full check on all past names, trans people can have their old name redacted. All their crimes are still shown, but their old name is hidden. This comes with a whole host of its own issues but does not allow a trans person to hide their criminal history.

You are angry about both, rightly. But you’re treating them as the same and acting like issue 2 caused issue 1. They are unrelated. Trans people are not the reason that some men have cheated the DBS system and committed fraud. That’s just simply fraud the old fashioned way.

Both issues are wrong. DBS is shitty. They need to make changes. But it’s not what you said it was.

Indeed. Having any kind of exception to the safeguarding process for a particular group of individuals is completely unacceptable and can lead to all sorts of issues - not least of which is the presence of an apparent sacred caste that leads to so many individuals refusing to accept any form of criticism for that group.

Long overdue for the DBS (and society generally) to stop treating trans people as exceptions to normal expectations of adults. For those interested, here's a detailed analysis of the procedural loophole for trans people wanting to work with children that this special process allows them:

https://kpssinfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/DBS-Checks-and-Identity-Verification.pdf

Everyone can do what’s being said. Not just trans people. It’s fraud for anyone to do it. Trans people are not allowed.

The fact that it is possible needs to be closed for everyone; not just trans people. The OP has misunderstood what is happening and is claiming this as a trans problem. It is a DBS problem for everyone.

My question would be a different one. Is there anything 'kind' about telling an individual that their mental delusion of having a 'gender', whether that is congruent with their sex or not, is kind to that individual or to anyone else?

Increasingly it seems to me that to do so is like encouraging a person with an eating disorder to obey their mad thoughts. Not kind to them, or to people they interact with, or to society at large.

One of the very good points that Stella O'Malley makes about the employees above and trans employees too is that it's actually very helpful and healthy for everyone to get a break from these complex personal issues and focus on our work. Which is the one thing that we all really have in common in our workplaces, no matter what else is going on in our lives.

I found it very helpful that my own organisation is not at all politicised. As a result I am well able to stay professional, polite and kind when dealing with trans people at work. It helps that no-one at work has made a fuss about it, nor offered me "training" in their favourite point of view, nor asked me to wave rainbows about.

No, I worried they'd just claim that you cannot tell when a man is aroused unless he says so or something stupid like that. Besides, it was a couple of years ago when women were supposed to shut up and put up or else.

You have evidently not read the KPSS document I linked. On page 21 it states that the authors asked the DBS whether the special confidential route for transgender individuals could be used by others (the example they used was a DV survivor requiring confidentiality in terms of personal safety)
The DBS responded that this loophole was only for transgender individuals - hence the OP asking why this safeguarding loophole exists just for that group?

As an adult and parent who's spent a lifetime working with children and safeguarding, the very fact that there's a special loophole for trans people gives a message to those charged with safeguarding children about which group are entitled to exceptions. Safeguarding is too important for that.

And as this thread shows, every time women talk about safeguarding there's a (fortunately small) number of posters who arrive and dominate, sneer and accuse posters. Always seeking to derail. Admittedly this thread has yet to have the accusations of pearl clutching and prudes, merely allegations of stupidity and failing to agree.

It's a really unhealthy to see and when it relates to safeguarding, it's dangerous.

I do recommend reading the KPSS report - it covers more than this issue and raises concerns about sex offenders generally being able to conceal identity via name changes and more:

https://kpssinfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/DBS-Checks-and-Identity-Verification.pdf

It’s a great report.

I think you've made your point, TruthOrAlethiometer, many many many times, and perhaps you could just move on?

I didn't make any comment on the OP's opinions, I made the point that there is dedicated route through DBS for one group of people, which is clearly identified as being for transgender applicants.

I didn't say that this allows trans people to hide their crimes, not at all.
I merely quoted it as an example of the disproportionate and inexplicable influence of a small percentage of the population on things like the DBS process.

Lovely post.
The "bring your whole self to work" mantra has been so damaging.Let's have your best professional self please. Your skills and your talents. That's it!

Would you stop reacting as if every flaming post is about you? You have made your point in what feels like half the posts in this thread, and you appear to think that making it a few more dozen times will be more effective. I suspect everyone else would like to consider other points, such as these ones that you have just agreed are vaild.

I mean (a) if people are saying "be kind" a lot to you then perhaps try and work out what they're actually saying to you, (b) it's kinda hilarious that it's just an absence of 'being kind' that's the problem of GC activists. Death threats, attempting to burn people alive, frequent eliminationist rhetoric, lawfare, hooking up with far right / religious right groups, suicide baits, mocking suicides and assaults, constant use of slurs, bomb threats etc etc are, weirdly enough, not the absence of "being kind".

GCs have normalised their vileness so much that they even use slurs in legal documentation - explaining the hideousness of one routine GC slur to an MP the other day was a journey for me and a pikachu moment for her.

No, it's not the absence of 'being kind'.

You don’t seem to have understood the point of the thread. Whoosh.

"Death threats, attempting to burn people alive, frequent eliminationist rhetoric, lawfare, hooking up with far right / religious right groups, suicide baits, mocking suicides and assaults, constant use of slurs, bomb threats etc etc are, weirdly enough, not the absence of "being kind"."

Are these supposed to be all things that feminists have done? WTAF

Rather...

I wasn’t even going to bother addressing the hyperbolic rubbish the pp came out with. What’s the point. Fake news is how these people roll.

It looked like a huge plop of hyperbole.

It would make an excellent screenshot though.

I was amused at “lawfare” coming in the middle of that nonsense. Heaven Forbid!

Well I'm guessing that on occasion people who believe sex is real may have done these things...

...But that's because 'believe sex is real' applies to that vast majority of people on the planet. Including most men. Who are most likely to do these things...

Appart from all of the safeguarding issues and lies, I find it outrageous that im expected to just stay quiet while a man puts on tights, and declares himself not only a woman but an oppressed women.

Then another bunch of men come along and say that its impossible to tell, or 'what is sex, anyway?', or that women have contributed to it because we wanted equality.

Its almost as if they read thebewilderness' rules of misogyny as a challenge.

Please explain why reality and truth are vile?