How does it even affect you? Just be kind.

[Shedmistress]

We all get this endlessly from every angle. Why do you care?
Why can't you just let this vulnerable group quietly get on with their lives?
It's just a tiny minority so go do something better with your day...

So I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread of 'ways it affects other people' and the effects of losing all logic, reason, sense of reality, and how health, safety and welfare are thrown out of the window the moment the word 'trans' is mentioned.

Please feel free to add your own with a link to what you are talking about. Especially documents relating to policy and processes that are wide open to abuse.

Why can't you just let this vulnerable group quietly get on with their lives?
Oh, and remind me again: in what way are they "vulnerable"? Stats and hard data please.

She literally said that trans people are the only group allowed to do this.

That is not at all true. They are not allowed to do it. They are also not the only group who could try to do it.

Anyone who has changed their identity can try to get around DBS.

This is not a trans issue. Any criminals can take advantage of that loophole. No trans identity required. It has nothing to do with someone being trans.

Yes, there is a misunderstanding here. And it’s you who is misunderstanding.

Who decides who's vulnerable? It shouldn't just be on someone's say so. I happen to think that some trans identified males are the very opposite of vulnerable and weaponise this supposed 'vulnerability' to further increase their power and reach.

i cba to read back because i'm busy but did she literally say that? or are we having a conversation specifically about how if you change your name due to a trans identity you fall through a loophole?

this is the only group of people that are allowed to do this

That is what she said (about trans people who change their names and don’t include it on their DBS. She said they are the only group who are allowed to do this).

Maybe this will help from the KPSS document:

"Safeguarding loopholes: change of name and gender The ability to change identity by what is arguably a more fundamental degree, by changing both name and gender also presents a risk to safeguarding. Not only is the individual able to change their name on identity documentation, but they are also able to overwrite the recording of their sex registered at birth with their acquired gender, including in some cases on their birth certificate. In this way, individuals are able to change the recording of two key identity markers, one of which, sex, is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010. 46 Correctly ascertaining sex registered at birth may form an important part of safeguarding and concealing this on a DBS certificate may present a particular risk including where protections for women and children are concerned.

There are two ways by which a change of identity consisting of change of name and change of gender may be affected: by obtaining a gender recognition certificate in accordance with the provisions of the Gender Recognition Act 2004,47 and by a process of self-declaration. "

Can you please tell us which group of other people can change the sex marker on their identification?

That’s not what the OP claimed. The OP claims that trans people are the only group of people who are ALLOWED to leave their old names off a DBS form.

They are not allowed. That’s what are are talking about. People like OP spreading misinformation.

Trans people must fill out their old names just like everyone else who has changed their name. If they choose not to, then they are committing fraud, just like anyone else who chooses not to.

Any criminal can change their name and then go through DBS without declaring their old name, and DBS don’t always catch it. This has nothing to do with being trans.

The OP claims that trans people are actually allowed to do this. They are not. So they’re not being given special treatment.

It does impact me, because I live in a world of science and facts, where there are two sexes and where you can’t change the one you’re born into even if you’d like to.

One of those two sexes is, generally speaking, smaller, physically weaker and thus vulnerable to harm from the other. That’s even before the societal structures which exacerbate these differences and make the vulnerabilities greater.

So whilst I give sympathy to those who genuinely feel that their body isn’t the one they identify with, I don’t give my permission for them to pretend to be the other sex.

Thank you, Helleofabore, and what about all the points made in posts other than the OP that are not about the DBS, TruthOrAlethiometer, or are you going to keep going back to the OP?

What about the other comments? I’m not talking about those. Why would I? Are the also incorrect? If they are, then feel free to share why they are incorrect. It’s very important to use correct arguments and not spread misinformation:

The OP spread misinformation. I corrected the wrong post. You lot have continued trying to argue that the OP was correct. She wasn’t. And no one has been able to actually show the document which says that trans people are legally entitled to leave their former names off a DBS check. No one has shown how it’s any different from anyone else who has changed their identity. That’s why I keep going back to it.

When you make a mistake, you should hold your hands up and say, “oh yes, tha the actually not just a trans issue but a whole problem with DBS and anyone who changes identity.”

This thread is meant to be about why and how transgender issues can affect women’s rights. What the OP posted does not belong on this thread. The other comments do… so why do you want me to argue against those?

so, the OP didn't include the full information. Other posters have filled you in on exactly what the context of the OP's post is referring to. And you just keep doubling down.

You have focused on one thing and one thing only and you have seemingly refused to engage with the wider information. You even accused Mrs O when she posted the information for you.

"The OP claims that trans people are actually allowed to do this. They are not. So they’re not being given special treatment."

I am not speaking for the OP. But the 'special treatment' that I can see, that has been described in further detail in the link given by Mrs O, is that only one group get to change the sex marker on their birth certificate and other identification documents which then will act to confuse the process.

'You lot'.

Ok. Good to know.

I’m required to accept that a male person should be in the alumni association for my women’s sports team, something that is very important to me. I know that’s unbelievably niche and that nobody else would care, but I care.

I watch young women and girls around me telling everyone that they are men. They’re not. It certainly distresses me, though that’s very personal, and the self harm they are doing with surgical support bothers me too. It is factually wrong and I’m upset by being forced to acquiesce in things that aren’t true. I grew up in a churchgoing household and became an atheist, so I had a long period of many years trying to reconcile how to deal with religious practice requiring me to say things I didn’t believe; I’m quite sensitive to that now as well.

Again… very slowly.. the OP claims that trans people are ALLOWED to do this, while no one else is.

I suspect that former names are linked to your new name - indeed that is inevitable - and there is no rule of privacy if investigation is being made. But it is illegal to dig out a transperson's former identity as it is a violation of their privacy. Honestly, I don't see why it is so, since if I change my name I can still be traced.

I'm not making it up. It is literally in the guidance linked.

It is literally called 'guidance - transgender applications'.

they are not. If you apply for a DBS check, you have to give your former names.

Safeguarding should mean that all the names are linked and are kept in a database somewhere so that if one of the names is checked, the check automatically includes those other names. The person checking need never know about this and only know about the name they are checking. This preserves the (fiction) that someone is now M when they were born F and vice versa. It doesn't "out" them, even in cases where it is absolutely obvious that they are trans.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/transgender-applications

'The Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) offers a confidential checking service for transgender applicants in accordance with the Gender Recognition Act 2004. This is known as the sensitive applications route, and is available for all levels of DBS check - basic, standard and enhanced.
The sensitive applications route gives transgender applicants the choice not to have any gender or name information disclosed on their DBS certificate, that could reveal their previous gender identity.
The sensitive applications team
If you are asked to complete a DBS check and have a previous identity that you do not wish to be disclosed to your employer and/or on your DBS certificate, you should call or email the dedicated sensitive applications team before submitting your application. The team is experienced in dealing with sensitive cases and will advise you of the process and what you need to do.'

I see the derailing tactics have already begun with a hyper focus on one thing and a complete ignoring of posters who have linked to further context/information

ok i went to check the link. For the complete avoidance of doubt i have c/p the text and there will be a screenshot when it gets through the modding process.

The Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) offers a confidential checking service for transgender applicants in accordance with the Gender Recognition Act 2004. This is known as the sensitive applications route, and is available for all levels of DBS check - basic, standard and enhanced.
The sensitive applications route gives transgender applicants the choice not to have any gender or name information disclosed on their DBS certificate, that could reveal their previous gender identity.
[my italics]

My understanding of this is that if you wish, because of your transgender identity, you should contact the sensitive applications team. But there is no way of enforcing that.

I suspect that most people, transgender or not, will complete the forms honestly, and those with a transgender identity will also do this by contacting this team.

HOWEVER: there will be people, transgender and not, who do not do this, and there is no way to force them to comply. That is a safeguarding issue any way you look at it.

ETA: sorry simulpost with Arabella

Did you read the link that the OP linked up?

The Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) offers a confidential checking service for transgender applicants in accordance with the Gender Recognition Act 2004. This is known as the sensitive applications route, and is available for all levels of DBS check - basic, standard and enhanced.

The sensitive applications route gives transgender applicants the choice not to have any gender or name information disclosed on their DBS certificate, that could reveal their previous gender identity.

Just to be clear, this is the pertinent point that I believe may be relevant to the OP's post.

The sensitive applications route gives transgender applicants the choice not to have any gender or name information disclosed on their DBS certificate, that could reveal their previous gender identity.

So, can you please explain to us which other group of people get a provision where they don't have to disclose their sex to their employer and on a DBS certificate?

Oh and it affects me because now everytime time I see the word woman or women I don’t know if it means actual women of the original boring oppressed throughout the centuries kind or the new shiny kind of women with prostates