How does it even affect you? Just be kind.

[Shedmistress]

We all get this endlessly from every angle. Why do you care?
Why can't you just let this vulnerable group quietly get on with their lives?
It's just a tiny minority so go do something better with your day...

So I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread of 'ways it affects other people' and the effects of losing all logic, reason, sense of reality, and how health, safety and welfare are thrown out of the window the moment the word 'trans' is mentioned.

Please feel free to add your own with a link to what you are talking about. Especially documents relating to policy and processes that are wide open to abuse.

No, I couldn’t have because the whole thing I’m arguing about is your point that “trans people are allowed to leave their old names off, meaning anyone can say they are trans and be allowed to leave their old names off and hide a criminal record.”

Everything you said was wrong. Other posters have put in information which is correct and they have a problem with, but also had nothing to do with your initial assertion.

What you claimed is totally wrong.

I obviously read too many detective novels!

Seriously you have beat this drum all morning.
We get it.
You disagree with how the OP worded her post and how she feels about the impact of this paticular issue regarding DBS.

There are many other issues that have been mentioned do you care to address them or are you just going to continue to derail your thread with repetitive posts?

I know very well the point you are arguing. You have stated it many times, quite clearly.

That statement is 100% correct.

As Trans is a nothing burger, and anyone can be 'trans', and can leave their name off and hide a criminal record.

No, they can’t! For fuck sake, get it through your head.

They cannot (legally) leave their name off the DBS check. They cannot (legally) hide a criminal record. They do the form the same as everyone, with all their previous names (unless they are committing fraud). The certificate will come back showing all relevant crimes.
The only difference the trans guidance allows is that their previous name is then removed so the employer doesn’t see it.

Their criminal record is still check the same as everyone else.
Their record is still shown the same as everyone else.

The only way they can hide it is by committing the same fraud anyone else can commit.

What don’t you understand?

But other ways of changing your name have a track back to the old one. If you change your name by deed poll, adoption or by marriage, you dont get a new birth certificate. You send in your old birth cert and the adoption certficicate, marriage certificate etc.

A new trans ID gives you a new birth certificate with no connection to the old ID.

This is fundamentally different from the other examples.

There is NO way to connect it to the previous ID.

Yes the OP still thinks that trans people are legally allowed to leave their previous name off the check and therefore hide a criminal record. Despite being told many many times that she is wrong and has misunderstood that the guidance is allowing for.

No one can legally leave their names off and therefore hide a criminal record. Anyone at all can commit fraud and that has nothing to do with being trans. But trans people cannot legally leave their name off the form and hide a past criminal conviction. They can have their previous name redacted from the certificate shown to the employer, but that’s it. Their past criminal activity is not hidden.

You do not need to send in your birth certificate so you do not need to show your birth name. You can send in supporting documents only showing your new name. That’s how this fraud is committed and has nothing at all to do with trans people. And there is no way to connect you to your old name as DBS don’t do that. They use the information you provide. That’s always been the case, fraud has always been possible, nothing at all to do with trans people or trans guidelines.

It's worth pointing out (again), that the whole 'Be Kind' mantra in this respect requires that women be kind to men identifying as women and not the other way around. I would love to know why trans women are never required to 'be kind' to women.
But to get specific about how it affects me personally:
I have been involved in feminist groups and discussions since I was a teenager. I have now been to two meetings (one about abortion rights), the other a panel, in which I had to be escorted in by the police, and was filmed by men as I went in. All women who want to talk about feminist issues are affected by this.
I know that my job may be at risk if I whistleblow about inappropriate behaviour from any man identifying as a woman, as he might just call me a terf
The political party I belong to has repeatedly expelled women for talking about sex and gender. I no longer feel secure that I can raise issues relating to women without making it much harder to participate politically in public life.
I can no longer be sure of getting same-sex intimate care one day when I am frail and no longer able to advocate for myself.
I can no longer be sure of getting same-sex respectful intimate care in the event of needing a smear or if I were in the unfortunate position of being raped. If I did respectfully request it, I can no longer be sure that I wouldn't be labelled a bigot and have my request overruled or used in hospital training documents as examples of 'bigotry'
I can no longer be sure of getting same-sex intimate searches if I were in the unfortunate position of being sent to prison.
I can no longer be sure that if I were in that unfortunate position, I would have the right to not be locked up with a male rapist.
I can no longer be sure that my 12yo niece will have her privacy respected and be allowed to get changed away from the boys or even adult men who decide they want to be in the same room when she gets undressed.
I know that whenever I partipate in any sport, the rankings may be skewed in favour of any man who feels like joining. This will always be negative, always in favour of the man and affecting every woman who participates, bumping her down the list.
I know that if I stay quiet, I will be labelled 'cis' by default which is a dehumanizing and sexist label that I simply don't accept.
I know that if I raise any of these issues, I am at risk of being labelled a terf and publicly excoriated for it.
And of course, every single one of these things affects every single female person in this country.
This is a fucking long list and it's not even comprehensive. So yes, personally it affects me but there is no woman in this country who isn't affected by it. And this is why I have never seen so many women so very angry.

But we are not talking about these other, fraudulent people. We are talking about trans people with a new ID.

They dont even need to bother going to the measures these other fraudsters do.

Other fraudsters always run the risk of being caught. That their fraudulent applications will be discovered.

A trans person will never be caught out like the fraudsters because we as a society have handed them the new ID on a plate.

Sure they have not revealed the old ID and that's an offence.

But they haven't even needed to create a false trail like the fraudsters.

There is a world of difference.

But fraudsters dont create a false trail? They legally change their name, then legally change their documents to reflect that name change. It’s not a false trail. It’s a legal name change.

They can then try to cheat DBS by providing all of that and leaving off their old name. And DBS don’t have checks in place so it could get through. This is fraud and illegal.

Trans people hiding their old name do the exact same thing. Exact same thing. A trans person who leaves their old name off and sends in their documents to prove their new name, is committing the exact same fraud and it is just as illegal. It also does have the same chance of being flagged up if they check up address and bank accounts for changes. DBS just don’t.

Anyone changing their name to cheat a DBS is doing the same as any trans person trying to cheat a DBS. Being trans doesn’t make any real difference.

If DBS always required a birth certificate, then that fraud would be made much much harder for everyone else except trans people with a GRC. Then they would have an advantage and it would be a loophole just for them. But that’s not the case. Anyone can do the exact same thing because they don’t need to provide a birth certificate. This isn’t a trans issue.

(and most trans people don’t change their birth certificate, just their legal name so they actually don’t even have that extra document: it’s the exact same as any one else).

Honestly OP this poster has killed the thread which I believe was always their intention.

Maybe if we ignore their constant repetitive posts and focus on the other vast examples posters have talked about they may shut up.

The Be kind campaign doesn’t work on women any more. We have had enough thank you very much.

I’ve seen it far too often on here that conversations, which are very important, are littered with misinformation and out and out lies, like someone claiming that 99.9% of DBS applications with a changed name are from trans people, are just left to stand.

Truth doesn’t seem so important to you when it’s helping make trans people or policies look like the villains. But it just undermines the whole side because you allow utter nonsense to be spouted and you support it.

There are plenty of real problems but OP can’t even hold her hands up and say, “I misunderstood.”

She still believes they can legally go through a DBS without revealing their old name so they can hide a criminal record. That is an incredibly dangerous untruth to allow.

No adult should be allowed to hide their birth sex if they want to work with children - ever.
It undermines safeguarding children and potentially exposes girls to voyeurism in changing rooms, inappropriate intimate contact (nappy changes for children with SEN) and raises a whole host of other issues.

There shouldn't be a sensitive applications route for any group of adults.

The safety of children matters so much more than the niche demands of adults who claim to have changed sex.

Threads which open with misinformation should be killed.

The truth:
Trans people can have their past names redacted from their DBS certificate after going through the full process but all their criminal past will remain on the certificate.

The OP:
Trans people are the only group legally allowed to leave their past names off the DBS application and therefore hide a criminal history, and anyone can be trans so all criminals can legally hide their criminal history.

That is entirely untrue.

I agree. But that’s not what the OP was complaining about, was it? She believe trans people have been given a legal route to hide their criminal record because she thinks the check is onto carried out on their new name. Not true.

She still believes they can legally go through a DBS without revealing their old name so they can hide a criminal record. That is an incredibly dangerous untruth to allow

They absoluely can legally not reveal their old name.

Because the trans guidance says they SHOULD call the trans loophole hotline. It doesn't say they MUST. It doesn't say they even have to stay on the trans loophole hotline and talk to someone and declare all their old names. Nothing in the guidance says they HAVE to do anything.

Once again you are deliberately misinterpreting what I wrote. Obviously I need to spell it out again.

Almost all male transsexuals applying for a DBS certificate will have changed their name.

Almost no male non-transsexuals applying for a DBS certificate will have changed their name.

I also mentioned women using their maiden name & married name. I am sure that women as a group account for the vast majority of name changes BUT I was referring to male transexuals as the group with the highest percentage of name changes.

If name changes are an issue for DBS certificates then proportionately transexuals pose the greatest threat because they all change their names. Your statistic that only 30% of transexuals change their name is frankly risible. In my experience they all do. Men who claim they have changed their sex do not keep their sexed deadname.

Trans people may not be "allowed" to hide their previous names for a DBS check, but it's definitely easier for them.

Other ways I'm affected by trans idealogy.

I've been told (not a law, but in a social group I used to love) that I need to refer to myself as a birthing parent not a mum/ mother because the TW finds it too upsetting as 'she' will never be a mother. Neither will my infertile friend unless she adopts, but she would never expect me to stop referring to myself as a mum, because I am.

I can't get laser treatment on the NHS for my PCOS beard, but my TW friend can get it because of "the distress that being a woman with a beard causes". I know how upsetting it is. I'm a woman with a fucking beard. And no, stopping this treatment for TW doesnt mean I would get it instead, but either it's available to "women" or it isn't.

Plus I don't want male people (which is what TW are) in any of the places where I feel vulnerable. Be that toilets, changing rooms or medical settings.

Thank you heathspeedwell.
Great to have a copy of this.
It pretty much covers it I think.

I'm not playing this game.

There's urinals and loos in the mens. The majority of trans identified people are pre op (95%) but that's also post op covered too.

Men need to be kind and accept more diversity in their spaces and stop threatening transwomen.

You still don’t understands. It says they should call the hotline if they want their name redacted from the certificate so their employer doesn’t see it, but if they’re happy for their employer to see their old name then they don’t need to call.

That guidance is not in relation to filling in the form. It’s just about whether they want their name redacted or not.

When filling in the form, their guidance is the same as everyone else’s. They must include all past names. If they don’t then it is fraud, the same fraud everyone else can commit.

Trans people do not need to call the hotline if they don’t want to, because they may not care if their old name is shown. It’s an option.

Their old name is still checked against the police databases. It’s the same criminal record check that everyone else goes through. They are not allowed to leave their old names off, there is no special system for them to do so, they cannot legally hide their criminal record. The only way to do that is fraud.

A trans person with a new name is no different to a married woman with a new name when it comes to DBS. And married woman do not have to call up a hotline to declare it and give their old name or whatever you think happens.

The form is the same for everyone. Trans people fill in the same form with the same guidance attached. All old names.

They then have the OPTION of calling that hotline and asking that their old name be redacted so their employee can’t see it. That comes with its own arguments about whether or not that’s right, but it’s not what you think it is.

They cannot legally leave their name off the form. They don’t have to speak to anyone about that, just like married women who change their names. There is absolutely no legal route for a trans person to leave their name off and hide their criminal record and they don’t need to speak to anyone about that.

Legally change their name.