How does it even affect you? Just be kind.

[Shedmistress]

We all get this endlessly from every angle. Why do you care?
Why can't you just let this vulnerable group quietly get on with their lives?
It's just a tiny minority so go do something better with your day...

So I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread of 'ways it affects other people' and the effects of losing all logic, reason, sense of reality, and how health, safety and welfare are thrown out of the window the moment the word 'trans' is mentioned.

Please feel free to add your own with a link to what you are talking about. Especially documents relating to policy and processes that are wide open to abuse.

They are the only group allowed to change their birth certificates.

Adopted people have a new short form birth certificate (states name and date of birth but not parentage) but they do not change it themselves and it's always changed while they are under 18.

Everyone else has to produce an original birth certificate (or adoption certificate) which is bound to have their original name on it. The document by KPSS linked to reminds you of the fact that sex offenders can change their name and aren't likely to notify authorities, but their birth certificate will still be in their original name - so this will link up offences with the person.
But a person with a GRC won't have their original name (or gender) on their new BC.

I (or probably my mum, thanks mum) lost my birth certificate so mine isn't issued within however may months of birth. So I have to produce something else when applying for a DBS. We can't get round people losing their BCs or indeed adopted people's BCs being issued later in childhood.
But we CAN get round people getting a whole new BC with a new name in adulthood.

You don’t need to provide a birth certificate for a DBS check at all. If you have a passport, driving license and marriages certified showing your name then you don’t need the birth certificate.

It's not true, that anyone can 'have' a sex other than their sex at birth (unless they have a very rare DSD requiring medical treatment and/or correction of their birth registration).

Less than 20% of British people believe that it is true.

(I'm basing this on the social attitudes survey response to questions about transwomen using women-only spaces, and the issuance of birth certificates with an altered sex marker.)

Despite this, it is taught, and enforced, as a true fact, which is wrong, and would still be wrong, in a secular society, even if far more people believed it.

The bad consequences fall mostly on women and children, because they are more physically and socially vulnerable than men.

Apart from data integrity, safeguarding, freedom of speech, and sex-based rights, everyone should surely be worried about children being given irreversible unapproved medical treatments.

I know that - the KPSS document suggests that this should always be necessary, even if it's an adjunct document (like mine would be as it wasn't issued within a short enough time after birth).

So any criminal can get around it and apply for a DBS without revealing a birth name.

Again, this is not a trans issue. It is a DBS shitty system issue.

Trans people fill out the same form as everyone else and the form guidance is clear; they must include all their names. The transgender sensitivity phone line just allows them to call up and ensure their name isn’t given to their employer. It doesn’t give them special rights to avoid the criminal record check.

The issue is that it is possible to cheat the checks with a name change… for anyone, trans or not. Literally every person in this country has the same option of changing their name and trying to cheat on the form. And DBS probably wouldn’t notice. But it is illegal, and it’s illegal for trans people just like everyone else. OP is claiming that trans people have a legal right to leave their old names off. They don’t.

It's not possible for non-transexuals to obtain a new "unique" GMC even if they change their name. Your GMC number is yours for life unless you are one of the sacred caste.

Why do I care? Because I find lying abhorrent, and the whole concept of 'trans' is built on lies and deceit. I don't have any issue with people presenting themselves in the way that they want and living their lives, but I do object when I'm forced to pretend that a man is actually a woman, when I know that they are not.

I don't want to lie. I don't want my kids to be told that they've got to lie too, just to be kind.

I wonder what would happen if a trans identifying man* applied for a DBS stating they were female and the person filling in the form didn't believe them and asked for all other names?
On a personal level, it's pretty hard to say to Debbie in front of you "that's not your real name", though a medic friend did tell me about some elderly patients who kept asking a nurse "why did your parents call you Mary? That's a funny name for a bloke. What were they thinking?".
But at an organisational level, even if the applicant revealed to the volunteer doing the DBS that they had a GRC, if they said "and it's a criminal offence to tell anyone about it" to the volunteer, the volunteer wouldn't know that they were allowed to pass on the fact that this person identifies as trans and has more than one name - they are unlikely to be that clued up on it.
Plus, of course, if the applicant was large and male and the volunteer small and female they may find the applicant intimidating.

I applied for a DBS using Ms (I don't use Dr socially) and was told I had to confirm I had no previous names, because I hadn't ticked the paper box saying "here are my previous names". But that was when it was on paper.
The youth leader processing it was a bit confused about this and I think if I'd put "Mrs" they would have worked out I needed to include previous names and it wouldn't have been sent back.

*I hope I'm allowed to use this now - I'm aware that not all trans identifying men identify as women, though for UK official documents it has to be one or the other.

I'm NOT claiming that only TRANS people can commit this fraud.

I'm saying ANYONE can because a GUIDANCE FOR TRANSGENDER APPLICATIONS exists that allows ANYONE to use it because TRANS isn't ever definable.

Honestly, the word TRANS and people lose all sense of reason. Which is the point of the thread.

AFAIK an individual cannot apply for an Enhanced DBS certificate. It has to be applied for by the organisation that the individual is going to work/volunteer for. So the individual must give all their previous names to the sponsoring organisation that they would like work/volunteer for. Perhaps I missed something?

It’s such a silly, vapid, thought terminating cliche and I instantly know that I’m either talking to someone very sexist or who hasn’t given the matter a great deal of thought.

um… no. You’re really not understanding.

Criminals changing their name and cheating on DBS checks happened way before transgender guidance. It literally had absolutely nothing to do either it.

The transgender guidance makes no difference to the application. All it does is allow you to call up and ask that your old names are not given to your employer doing the check. That’s it. That is all it does. It has nothing to do with the actual application; all it does it leave your old names off the certificate.

The application process is the same as it always has been. You fill it in and must include all your names. However, they have no way to check. Any criminal at all can change their name to anything, without declaring themselves trans, and fill in the application without including their old name. They might get caught, they might not. If not, then they get a clean DBS. Anyone can do that. They always could. You don’t need to claim to be trans, you never did. You only need to change your name, which has been easily done for decades. The trans guidance is new. They are not linked, at all.

It literally has fuck all to do with the trans guidance or the sensitivity in application.

There is no way of ensuring that individuals give ALL their old names.

I've been looking at this for years, the police themselves have completely lost track (Google 'police lose track of paed0philes' and see how many have been lost by police force after police force).

No, you fill it in yourself for the organisation. But you can speak to DBS and your old names won’t be shown to them. They just see the certificate at the end of the process, with the names redacted.

Anyone at all can fill it in without their old names and try to cheat. Has absolutely nothing to do with trans guidance. That literally only affects the old names being shown on the certificate at the end.

I fully support tightening up the rules on name changes around safeguarding for everyone, with “trans people” being subject to exactly the same checking process, no “special” route.

Yes, no one is arguing with you about that. It is a huge issue, absolutely. But has nothing to do with using trans loophole.

They have nothing to do with each other. You do not need to pretend to be trans. Being trans doesn’t give you special treatment. Anyone can change their name and cheat on a DBS. It is a huge issue.

It is not due to the trans guidance, which has nothing to do with it.

@Shedmistress
You are completely right to be frustrated with DBS being so antiquated. It is far too easy to cheat. For anyone. Anyone at all. I’m a woman. If I had a criminal record, I could change my name to a different female name and apply for job who want to run a DBS, I could then fill it out with my new name (after getting all my supporting documents changed to my new name) and then do my DBS without mentioning my previous name. I might get away with it if nothing flags up. Woohoo; clean DBS under a different name. No mention of trans anywhere, no help at all from some made up trans loophole. Just a terrible DBS service.

That is the issue which you are mad about.

I don’t know why you think it’s only possible due to trans guidance. The trans people using that guidance are actually the trans people who ARE declaring their old names… because they’re calling up and asking that their old name is not shown on the certificates sent to their employer. Which means they provided their old name. So the trans people using that guidance aren’t trying to cheat DBS and hide a criminal history.

The trans guidance does not allow fraud the way you seem to think it does.

It’s years since I applied for an Enhanced DBS certificate as I subscribe to the annual update service so I couldn’t recall exactly how it was done. Are you saying that the sponsoring organisation gives you the form & you fill it in privately & then you send it off to the DBS?

My daughters are adopted. They suffered neglect and abuse as babies and are left with the ongoing effects of their early trauma. I may not be happy with a trans woman in the ladies toilets- for them it is a trigger which sets off their fight/flight system and they have a panic attack. Their hypervigilance in public places is off the scale. They deserve to know that the ladies is a safe place for them. They are triggered at such a core level, they are not able to rationalise what is happening - the panic hits them like a truck. They need the scaffolding of single sex spaces and without having to be on edge all the time in case they encounter a man. They both have special needs too and need information presented in a clear, consistent way using vocabulary they understand - the idea that men can be pregnant or that terms like "chest feeders" or "everyone with a cervix" are incredibly confusing to them.

It’s a trans loophole insomuch as 99.9% of transsexuals will have changed their name while 99.9% of non-transsexuals will not have changed their name.

What? That’s not true at true. Majority of name changes are not trans people.

And quite obviously, a criminal wanting to try and hide their history would just go and change their name for that purpose. They wouldn’t become trans. A man can change to another man’s name. You don’t need to declare yourself trans and trans guidance doesn’t make any difference whatsoever to how it works. Trans guidance is not what allows for this loophole. It has always been around.

''Although the government has acknowledged the safeguarding loophole created where registered sex offenders are able to change their name by deed poll, the ability to change identity in a more fundamental way, by simultaneously changing both name and gender, remains unaddressed.''
kpssinfo.org/dbs-checks-identity-verification/

Calm down dear...
Little girls should be seen and not heard...
She was asking for it...
Be kind...

All the same.

That's not what that statistic says.

It says "out of all trans people (about 0.5% of population) 99.99% of them will have changed name)"

"out of all non-trans people (about 99.5% of population) 99.99% will not have changed their name)". (although I suspect more than 0.01% of the non-trans population have changed name, especially if you include change of surname on marriage).

It doesn't say that the majority of name changes are trans people.

How does that work if you have an entirely new identity new birth certificate and everything? When I was DBS checked i sent in my birth certificate and a couple of bills that was it